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> Carmen Ortiz as the prosecutor was the law at that moment No, she was a prosecutor attempting to apply the law; rather than have his day in court, Aaron chos

> Carmen Ortiz as the prosecutor was the law at that moment No, she was a prosecutor attempting to apply the law; rather than have his day in court, Aaron chose suicide. It is the judge and jury that are the law and Aaron never saw them. > so it is a circular reasoning and sophistry to say that killing Aaron Swartz was not unlawful It is nothing of the sort. > And it was Carmen Ortiz' choice to bring Aaron into a position where he didn't see any other escape than suicide. That's still Aaron's fault, not hers, he could have chosen to have his day in court and she could have lost. We'll never know because his will was too weak to even face the possibility of a trial. Committing suicide to avoid a trial is never the prosecutors faults.

yarou 11y ago
It's not unreasonable to choose death over living under an unjust and corrupt regime, whose laws you don't agree with. In fact, there are many people in the world today who make that very choice. I'm assuming you've never had a helpless moment where you truly felt powerless. In that moment, even death seems preferable to a life where you are helpless. Personally, I would rush head on into the barrels of guns pointed at me, rather than live with my head bowed and my spirit broken.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  > It's not unreasonable to choose death over living under an unjust and corrupt regime, whose laws you don't agree with. Who said it was? I said it wasn't murder. Aaron killed himself, that is an indisputable fact of the case. No one agrees with all the laws of the country, anywhere on the planet; that's life everywhere. He didn't choose to die over the corrupt regime; he chose to die to avoid facing jail, he was just fine living in the corrupt regime before jail looked like the final option. > Personally, I would rush head on into the barrels of guns pointed at me, rather than live with my head bowed and my spirit broken. Brave words, but they're just words; people react differently when actually faced with such circumstances.
  - wolfgke 11y ago
    > Brave words, but they're just words; people react differently when actually faced with such circumstances. And that is why as a prosecutor you should better be careful than sorry (though I don't know whether Carmen Ortiz is the latter).
    - gnaritas 11y ago
      That's not a prosecutor's job to worry about the mental state of a defendant. It's their job to prosecute the case if the evidence is there, and it was. The defense can worry about the defendants state of mind, that's part of their job. This prosecutor was overzealous in the charges being made, but there's no doubt they had a strong case against him and he was guilty of a felony.
      - qaq 11y ago
        I think it's just in sharp contrast of how say top officers of major banks that laundered 378.4bn USD in drug money were treated (Wachovia, Wells Fargo ...).
        gnaritas 11y ago
        I agree, but going after wealthy people is much harder than going after a college kid; that's a whole issue all its own.
- EdwardDiego 11y ago
  > It's not unreasonable to choose death over living under an unjust and corrupt regime You presumably live under the same regime, yet here you are, breathing and posting. Not at all rushing into gun barrels? What gives, man? > I'm assuming you've never had a helpless moment where you truly felt powerless. In that moment, even death seems preferable to a life where you are helpless. Don't extrapolate yourself to others. I have been in that situation, more than once, and it only ever imbued me with a ferocious will to live.
- ryanlol 11y ago
  >It's not unreasonable to choose death over living under an unjust and corrupt regime, whose laws you don't agree with. In fact, there are many people in the world today who make that very choice. You know we have this thing called planes right? In no way was Aaron forced to stay in the US.
zethraeus 11y ago
you're both taking a miserable but ambiguous situation and trying to make it black and white. that's not really useful.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  To whom? It's clearly useful to us or we wouldn't be discussing it. I see nothing ambiguous about the situation, he broke the law willingly, got caught, couldn't handle the consequences, so he committed suicide. What's ambiguous about that?

yarou 11y ago

It's not unreasonable to choose death over living under an unjust and corrupt regime, whose laws you don't agree with. In fact, there are many people in the world today who make that very choice. I'm assuming you've never had a helpless moment where you truly felt powerless. In that moment, even death seems preferable to a life where you are helpless. Personally, I would rush head on into the barrels of guns pointed at me, rather than live with my head bowed and my spirit broken.

gnaritas 11y ago
> It's not unreasonable to choose death over living under an unjust and corrupt regime, whose laws you don't agree with. Who said it was? I said it wasn't murder. Aaron killed himself, that is an indisputable fact of the case. No one agrees with all the laws of the country, anywhere on the planet; that's life everywhere. He didn't choose to die over the corrupt regime; he chose to die to avoid facing jail, he was just fine living in the corrupt regime before jail looked like the final option. > Personally, I would rush head on into the barrels of guns pointed at me, rather than live with my head bowed and my spirit broken. Brave words, but they're just words; people react differently when actually faced with such circumstances.
- wolfgke 11y ago
  > Brave words, but they're just words; people react differently when actually faced with such circumstances. And that is why as a prosecutor you should better be careful than sorry (though I don't know whether Carmen Ortiz is the latter).
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    That's not a prosecutor's job to worry about the mental state of a defendant. It's their job to prosecute the case if the evidence is there, and it was. The defense can worry about the defendants state of mind, that's part of their job. This prosecutor was overzealous in the charges being made, but there's no doubt they had a strong case against him and he was guilty of a felony.
    - qaq 11y ago
      I think it's just in sharp contrast of how say top officers of major banks that laundered 378.4bn USD in drug money were treated (Wachovia, Wells Fargo ...).
      - gnaritas 11y ago
        I agree, but going after wealthy people is much harder than going after a college kid; that's a whole issue all its own.
EdwardDiego 11y ago
> It's not unreasonable to choose death over living under an unjust and corrupt regime You presumably live under the same regime, yet here you are, breathing and posting. Not at all rushing into gun barrels? What gives, man? > I'm assuming you've never had a helpless moment where you truly felt powerless. In that moment, even death seems preferable to a life where you are helpless. Don't extrapolate yourself to others. I have been in that situation, more than once, and it only ever imbued me with a ferocious will to live.
ryanlol 11y ago
>It's not unreasonable to choose death over living under an unjust and corrupt regime, whose laws you don't agree with. In fact, there are many people in the world today who make that very choice. You know we have this thing called planes right? In no way was Aaron forced to stay in the US.

zethraeus 11y ago

you're both taking a miserable but ambiguous situation and trying to make it black and white. that's not really useful.

gnaritas 11y ago
To whom? It's clearly useful to us or we wouldn't be discussing it. I see nothing ambiguous about the situation, he broke the law willingly, got caught, couldn't handle the consequences, so he committed suicide. What's ambiguous about that?