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it is impossible for complex features such as wings, eyes etc to evolve because they will require a series of mutations that do not individually confer any evol

it is impossible for complex features such as wings, eyes etc to evolve because they will require a series of mutations that do not individually confer any evolutionary advantage The answer to this proposition is that the fact we aren't aware of the evolutionary advantages which were obtained en route doesn't mean there weren't any. The feathered wing is very complex and it won't fly until it has fully evolved, for example -- but as we learned quite recently, feathers evolved (and were an evolutionary advantage) because dinosaurs needed to stay warm. Birds can fly because a feather which is efficient at capturing air and keeping a giant lizard warm also turns out to be very efficient at pushing air and keeping a proto-avian aloft.

fiatjaf 11y ago
> The answer to this proposition is that the fact we aren't aware of the evolutionary advantages which were obtained en route doesn't mean there weren't any. Your argument begs the question. It is the same as saying: "since evolution actually happened, these mutations must have conferred some evolutionary advantage".
- cperciva 11y ago
  That wasn't an argument. That was pointing out a flaw in the counter-evolution argument. The fact that we are not aware of any evolutionary advantage conferred by a change yields no information in either direction about the validity of the evolutionary theory.
- nitrogen 11y ago
  You might enjoy reading this book: http://smile.amazon.com/Why-Evolution-True-Jerry-Coyne/dp/0143116649 http://smile.amazon.com/Why-Evolution-True-Jerry-Coyne/dp/01... It summarizes the strongest evidence for evolution in several categories, including the fossil record; the evolution of various features like feathers, eyes, and wings; sings of path dependence that can only be explained by evolution, like the recurrent laryngeal nerve[0]; etc. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurrent_laryngeal_nerve#Evidence_of_evolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurrent_laryngeal_nerve#Evid...
- logingone 11y ago
  I'm giving you an up-vote for knowing the difference between begs the question and raises the question.
lszydlo 11y ago
Phenomenon you are describing is called exaptation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaptation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaptation

fiatjaf 11y ago

> The answer to this proposition is that the fact we aren't aware of the evolutionary advantages which were obtained en route doesn't mean there weren't any. Your argument begs the question. It is the same as saying: "since evolution actually happened, these mutations must have conferred some evolutionary advantage".

cperciva 11y ago
That wasn't an argument. That was pointing out a flaw in the counter-evolution argument. The fact that we are not aware of any evolutionary advantage conferred by a change yields no information in either direction about the validity of the evolutionary theory.
nitrogen 11y ago
You might enjoy reading this book: http://smile.amazon.com/Why-Evolution-True-Jerry-Coyne/dp/0143116649 http://smile.amazon.com/Why-Evolution-True-Jerry-Coyne/dp/01... It summarizes the strongest evidence for evolution in several categories, including the fossil record; the evolution of various features like feathers, eyes, and wings; sings of path dependence that can only be explained by evolution, like the recurrent laryngeal nerve[0]; etc. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurrent_laryngeal_nerve#Evidence_of_evolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurrent_laryngeal_nerve#Evid...
logingone 11y ago
I'm giving you an up-vote for knowing the difference between begs the question and raises the question.

lszydlo 11y ago

Phenomenon you are describing is called exaptation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaptation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaptation