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A few considerations: 1) If these are good ideas and there is nothing wrong with them, than why does law enforcement keep them secret? Why don't they advertise
by hackuser 11y ago
A few considerations:
1) If these are good ideas and there is nothing wrong with them, than why does law enforcement keep them secret? Why don't they advertise to citizens: 'We track everything you do, including who you call, where you go, what you say online, and then we predict if you are a threat or not and respond appropriately. This makes you and the community safer!'
2) Does being black or Muslim, having far-left or far-right political views, increase or decrease your threat score?
3) Law enforcement has a very well-established history of using their power not for public safety, but to abuse and oppress vulnerable classes of people and people politically unpopular with the state (e.g., peace protesters). Just think of all the shootings, arrests, COINTELPRO, etc. etc. Why would this power be used any differently?
For example, many blacks already experience harassmet from law enforcement, including such things as pulling them over for 'driving while black', suspecting them of criminality for being in a predominently white shopping area, arresting them for no cause, etc. What will life be like for blacks on a police threat list? Will their life be constant harassment? Will the predicted threat be self-fulfilling because they will be arrested inevitably? Will corrupt police just plant something on citizens on the threat list and arrest them to preemptively get them off the street (and then tout the accuracy and value of the threat list)?
4) Police already are given the authority to shoot people based on suspicion or a feeling of threat. For example, someone putting their hand in their pocket or reaching for something in their car could be reaching for a gun. Will being on the threat list be justification for violence against citizens?
5) Aren't we presumed innocent until proven guilty? Aren't we to be judged by our actions and not what someone else thinks we will do? What happened to the land of opportunity?
- kragen 11y ago> Does being black or Muslim, having far-left or far-right political views, increase or decrease your threat score? One of the things they explicitly mentioned was "gang associations". In my US experience, groups of black or Hispanic* youths who sometimes do illegal things (shoplifting, trespassing, underage drinking, pot smoking) are often called "gangs" in cases where groups of white or Asian youths wouldn't, even if they were doing the same things. So I think it's inevitable that this kind of Citizenship Score will reproduce and fortify existing structures of racist discrimination. * This primarily applies in parts of the US where the local system of racism classifies Hispanic people as nonwhite.
- sliverstorm 11y agoSince when has "gang" excluded "white"? The Chicago Outfit, Hell's Angels?
- herbertldon 11y agoHe didn't say 'gang' excluded 'white', did he? He said that a group of black youths that sometimes do shady stuff will be labelled a 'gang', while a group of white youths will not.
- sliverstorm 11y agoI guess, anecdote vs. anecdote, I've just never seen that happen.
- herbertldon 11y agoRather, I think your low reading comprehension and desire to be outraged led to you believe that the commenter was suggesting that he thought white groups weren't gangs. You happily seized the opportunity to make your righteous comment. Unfortunately, it made zero sense in the context.
- dang 11y agoPersonal attacks are not allowed here, regardless of whether another commenter is wrong. Please don't do this again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dawnbreez 11y agoParent comment's point is that a group of white kids that hit a mailbox are called "miscreants", while a group of black kids who hit a mailbox are called a "gang". White gangs exist; it's just easy to call a group of black kids a "gang" because that's our image of a gang.