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Its one thing, and expected, for the car to look for signs, but if self-driving cars all need perfect maps which I didn't know was a necessity then I don't see

Its one thing, and expected, for the car to look for signs, but if self-driving cars all need perfect maps which I didn't know was a necessity then I don't see them being practical.

ocdtrekkie 11y ago
My understanding is that it 'looks for signs', if it expects them to be there. Obviously, it has to look at the stoplight to see what color it is. But it won't look at arbitrary space for a stoplight it isn't told exists. Source, by the way: slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/10/google_self_driving_car_it_may_never_actually_happen.html FWIW, a Googler has done a TED talk about having the car recognize police officers holding signs and temporary things like that, more recently, so they may have made strides in solving this problem. But at it's core, the Self-Driving Car Project seems way too reliant on Google's cloud servers for my taste. I'd love to have a self-driving car, but it needs to be self-driving, not Google-driving.
- Someone 11y ago
  Give it ten years, and that traffic light problem may solve itself. I would not surprise me if we would eventually see every traffic light broadcast its GPS location, cycle pattern, and phase, either using radio or by modulating their light source. That still is risky (hackers could hack the logic in a traffic light), but less risky than relying on one central authority to know what he whole world looks like. Also, I don't think it is a good idea, but chances are police officers will have ways to stop self-driving car without giving visual signs.
  - ocdtrekkie 11y ago
    It would definitely be useful for traffic lights to be beacons, but I think you might underestimate the government time scale for renovating and modernizing our infrastructure on a national scale.
  - deftnerd 11y ago
    That's a clever solution. Many lights have moved over to arrays of colored LEDs. The bulbs themselves could transmit data, similar to LiFi, to cars. The LED arrays could also have a LiFi receiver. To prevent hacking, the data transmitted by the traffic lights could be digitally signed using the public key of the jurisdiction. If 2 way communications is required, vehicles could sign their data with a vehicle key too. Something like this would be a good way to securely allow lights to change their behavior when emergency vehicles or mass transit vehicles approach, broadcast road warnings to all vehicles, broadcast amber alerts. It could also receive reports from vehicles on average speed in road segments, reports of icy conditions (from vehicle traction feedback), reports of potholes or other maintenance issues, etc.
seanp2k2 11y ago
Consider also: crossing guards, police pulling you or someone else over, emergency vehicles trying to get through (possibly in traffic necessitating that multiple cars move around to make way), drunk driver swerving into your lane, construction lanes which route you onto the shoulder, stoplight failure (power outage or otherwise) with and without someone directing traffic, city parking garages where a valet parks your car in a tight grid, events where you park in a field / on the grass (somewhere that would otherwise be "out of bounds"), camping, some of the things schools do inside parking lots... I just see far too many weird edge cases for car without a steering wheel to be feasible in the next few decades. Automated driver assist, sure. Taking over almost all the time, sure. But the dream of having it take you home drunk / take your kids to school without you / let you sleep on the way to work is pretty far off IMO.
- ocdtrekkie 11y ago
  I agree, and most people don't understand the extent of parking being a huge issue. Driveways for houses, all of it. Though there are some edge cases companies like Google might be able to do in the shorter term. An Uber-like service only needs to show you the closest it is able to pick you up and drop you off, and can largely ignore the parking nightmare entirely.
forrestthewoods 11y ago
You'd be surprised. It's just not an issue. Google has already done it for Mountain View. Yes, any additional city will need to have an equivalent map built for it. Ok. Great! So that's what they'll do. It's a solved problem. Throw some time and money at it and voila.
- ocdtrekkie 11y ago
  In the aforementioned source, a Googler said that's impractical. A lot of things could be solved with an infinite amount of money, that we recognize is not solved because we don't have the money to do it.

Its one thing, and expected, for the car to look for signs, but if self-driving cars all need perfect maps which I didn't know was a necessity then I don't see them being practical.

ocdtrekkie 11y ago

My understanding is that it 'looks for signs', if it expects them to be there. Obviously, it has to look at the stoplight to see what color it is. But it won't look at arbitrary space for a stoplight it isn't told exists. Source, by the way: slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/10/google_self_driving_car_it_may_never_actually_happen.html FWIW, a Googler has done a TED talk about having the car recognize police officers holding signs and temporary things like that, more recently, so they may have made strides in solving this problem. But at it's core, the Self-Driving Car Project seems way too reliant on Google's cloud servers for my taste. I'd love to have a self-driving car, but it needs to be self-driving, not Google-driving.

Someone 11y ago
Give it ten years, and that traffic light problem may solve itself. I would not surprise me if we would eventually see every traffic light broadcast its GPS location, cycle pattern, and phase, either using radio or by modulating their light source. That still is risky (hackers could hack the logic in a traffic light), but less risky than relying on one central authority to know what he whole world looks like. Also, I don't think it is a good idea, but chances are police officers will have ways to stop self-driving car without giving visual signs.
- ocdtrekkie 11y ago
  It would definitely be useful for traffic lights to be beacons, but I think you might underestimate the government time scale for renovating and modernizing our infrastructure on a national scale.
- deftnerd 11y ago
  That's a clever solution. Many lights have moved over to arrays of colored LEDs. The bulbs themselves could transmit data, similar to LiFi, to cars. The LED arrays could also have a LiFi receiver. To prevent hacking, the data transmitted by the traffic lights could be digitally signed using the public key of the jurisdiction. If 2 way communications is required, vehicles could sign their data with a vehicle key too. Something like this would be a good way to securely allow lights to change their behavior when emergency vehicles or mass transit vehicles approach, broadcast road warnings to all vehicles, broadcast amber alerts. It could also receive reports from vehicles on average speed in road segments, reports of icy conditions (from vehicle traction feedback), reports of potholes or other maintenance issues, etc.

seanp2k2 11y ago

Consider also: crossing guards, police pulling you or someone else over, emergency vehicles trying to get through (possibly in traffic necessitating that multiple cars move around to make way), drunk driver swerving into your lane, construction lanes which route you onto the shoulder, stoplight failure (power outage or otherwise) with and without someone directing traffic, city parking garages where a valet parks your car in a tight grid, events where you park in a field / on the grass (somewhere that would otherwise be "out of bounds"), camping, some of the things schools do inside parking lots... I just see far too many weird edge cases for car without a steering wheel to be feasible in the next few decades. Automated driver assist, sure. Taking over almost all the time, sure. But the dream of having it take you home drunk / take your kids to school without you / let you sleep on the way to work is pretty far off IMO.

ocdtrekkie 11y ago
I agree, and most people don't understand the extent of parking being a huge issue. Driveways for houses, all of it. Though there are some edge cases companies like Google might be able to do in the shorter term. An Uber-like service only needs to show you the closest it is able to pick you up and drop you off, and can largely ignore the parking nightmare entirely.

forrestthewoods 11y ago

You'd be surprised. It's just not an issue. Google has already done it for Mountain View. Yes, any additional city will need to have an equivalent map built for it. Ok. Great! So that's what they'll do. It's a solved problem. Throw some time and money at it and voila.

ocdtrekkie 11y ago
In the aforementioned source, a Googler said that's impractical. A lot of things could be solved with an infinite amount of money, that we recognize is not solved because we don't have the money to do it.