4 ms·

At first blush it seems like a good idea, but I think there are better ways. When I grew up in Sunset Park, Brooklyn in the 70s, we used to have impromptu boxin

by eggy 11y ago

At first blush it seems like a good idea, but I think there are better ways. When I grew up in Sunset Park, Brooklyn in the 70s, we used to have impromptu boxing matches on the corner with only gloves for this very same reason. The local boy's club had Wednesday night boxing. I think the energy should be channeled into something more positive like breakdancing was a way for groups to battle when I was a kid. My father was a Golden Gloves runner up in the 50s, so it was passed down without question. The cliche of 'get the kids off the street by boxing' goes way back in film and reality. As a result of breakdancing, I also got into dance skating in the Central Park skate circle and met more people with different outlooks. Now, MMA is just one step below gladiator fights, and is very popular all over the world, urban and suburban. I just wish there were more creative outlets to leave the path to any type of violence behind.

angersock 11y ago
I see what you're saying, but at some level violence is--I would argue--a core part of what makes humans human, or at the very least what makes shithead teenage males shithead teenage males. Surely there is the "our group is better than your group", and that certainly is served by creative outlets like your breakdancing--however, there is also very much the "somehow or some way you have wronged me, and I demand a chance to even things out". That latter case is not really handled well by creative outlets, because it gives no visceral satisfaction. In those cases, avenging against a bully or thief or something similar, slugging it out with boxing gloves is probably the better answer. I guess it comes down to whether you want to fight human nature or safely accommodate it.
- eggy 11y ago
  Having boxed for 2 years, and fought in the streets as a kid, I am not in denial about violence being a 'core' part of our current humanity. I think we can evolve away from it. For the record, it is about the individual for me, no groups or groupthink or tribalism as hinted at by "our group is better than your group", which I think should only be a sentiment for when we are immature and do not know better. Now in my older age, I apologize for something more readily and sooner than when I was a teenager, even if I have not convinced myself I am at all wrong. Maturity, and in my case sobriety, help me greatly to try and grow, and redirect or solve my personal or interpersonal issues in a less violent, more creative and positive manner including eliminating abusive, berating, or condescending speech. I am not 'PC' by any means, but I am more human, I think by finding compassion and empathy where I once looked as might as a last resort in a failing intellectual argument. We poison ourselves and solve nothing with negative rage, or energy. Turning upset into a personal challenge. I am but a naive fifty-something hoping to one-up myself. Fortunately, my children are already more emotionally, and intellectually mature than when I was their age, and I am this in comparison to my father. This is my 'empirical' evidence of evolving away from violence without violent substitution.
  - angersock 11y ago
    Thank you for a good writeup. :) I don't meant to come across as supporting violence instead of more civilized ways of handling things; your point about getting older and being able to handle things nonviolently certain rings true to me. It's more, to me, that that violent stage is very much something that we all go through to one degree or another. Once we're past that stage, we see how silly it is, but if you never grow through and out of it, I think you can't reason about it as successfully. Policies which seek to remove that stage entirely (typically through medication, zero-tolerance policies, or what not) damage the socialization of young adults and children. I think we should provide a safe route to explore and then grow out of those tendencies, instead of trying to pretend they don't exist.
- force_reboot 11y ago
  The problem with this approach is that for every legitimate reason for wanting to fight someone, there will be illegitimate reasons too. Someone might challenge a person to a boxing match because they think that person is weak, effeminate or gay. Is setting up a formal boxing match really going to help the person who is challenged in this context? Should we allow homophobic bullying because it's in human nature too?

by eggy 11y ago

angersock 11y ago

I see what you're saying, but at some level violence is--I would argue--a core part of what makes humans human, or at the very least what makes shithead teenage males shithead teenage males. Surely there is the "our group is better than your group", and that certainly is served by creative outlets like your breakdancing--however, there is also very much the "somehow or some way you have wronged me, and I demand a chance to even things out". That latter case is not really handled well by creative outlets, because it gives no visceral satisfaction. In those cases, avenging against a bully or thief or something similar, slugging it out with boxing gloves is probably the better answer. I guess it comes down to whether you want to fight human nature or safely accommodate it.

eggy 11y ago
Having boxed for 2 years, and fought in the streets as a kid, I am not in denial about violence being a 'core' part of our current humanity. I think we can evolve away from it. For the record, it is about the individual for me, no groups or groupthink or tribalism as hinted at by "our group is better than your group", which I think should only be a sentiment for when we are immature and do not know better. Now in my older age, I apologize for something more readily and sooner than when I was a teenager, even if I have not convinced myself I am at all wrong. Maturity, and in my case sobriety, help me greatly to try and grow, and redirect or solve my personal or interpersonal issues in a less violent, more creative and positive manner including eliminating abusive, berating, or condescending speech. I am not 'PC' by any means, but I am more human, I think by finding compassion and empathy where I once looked as might as a last resort in a failing intellectual argument. We poison ourselves and solve nothing with negative rage, or energy. Turning upset into a personal challenge. I am but a naive fifty-something hoping to one-up myself. Fortunately, my children are already more emotionally, and intellectually mature than when I was their age, and I am this in comparison to my father. This is my 'empirical' evidence of evolving away from violence without violent substitution.
- angersock 11y ago
  Thank you for a good writeup. :) I don't meant to come across as supporting violence instead of more civilized ways of handling things; your point about getting older and being able to handle things nonviolently certain rings true to me. It's more, to me, that that violent stage is very much something that we all go through to one degree or another. Once we're past that stage, we see how silly it is, but if you never grow through and out of it, I think you can't reason about it as successfully. Policies which seek to remove that stage entirely (typically through medication, zero-tolerance policies, or what not) damage the socialization of young adults and children. I think we should provide a safe route to explore and then grow out of those tendencies, instead of trying to pretend they don't exist.
force_reboot 11y ago
The problem with this approach is that for every legitimate reason for wanting to fight someone, there will be illegitimate reasons too. Someone might challenge a person to a boxing match because they think that person is weak, effeminate or gay. Is setting up a formal boxing match really going to help the person who is challenged in this context? Should we allow homophobic bullying because it's in human nature too?