6 ms·

This is a pretty misleading headline. s/drive/park/ That said, self-parking ability is still a big deal. Imagine when, say, 35% of the population gets the

by raldi 11y ago

This is a pretty misleading headline. s/drive/park/ That said, self-parking ability is still a big deal. Imagine when, say, 35% of the population gets them. You could have super-dense, extra-cheap parking lots for self-parking cars only. They could be packed extraordinarily tight, with no need for human valets. Your car's boxed in all the way in the back? It'll just tell the ones in its way to please get out for a moment. One car breaks down? That's probably rare enough that you can move the ones around it and bring in a tow truck or human driver.

bitJericho 11y ago
Of course it is. It's another TC article.
sandworm101 11y ago
Packed extra dense? They could no doubt shave a few inches here and there, but the basics of parking remain. (1) They would have to have lanes, else every car have to move every time someone wanted out. And these lanes would have to be wide enough that the car with the largest turning radius could still get out reasonably. (2) There would still need to be some standard width for spaces, else a thin car leaving would leave a 3-4' wide space that nobody else could fit into. And a thin car moving into the gap left by a wide car wouldn't be very efficient. (3) Accommodation would still be needed for humans/pedestrians to deal with issues or rescue stuck cars. (4) The new nightmare of the loading area outside stores as autodrive cars line up like cabs at the airport pickup up passengers. At least in a parking lot everyone can load/unload without forcing everyone else to wait. (5) The fire safety rules would still apply. Deep in building codes are provisions for exactly how much of various dangerous things are allowed inside parking lots. A bunch of tightly-packed, battery packed, teslas in a big concrete box is a firefighter's nightmare. Imho far more space could be saved in north america if parking lots had better accommodation for motorcycles. Everyone who rides a bike rather than drive a car effectively saves 3/4 of a parking space if spots are made for them.
- mcbutterbunz 11y ago
  Not to mention you wouldn't be able to box cars in. You still need to be able to pull the car ou, with or without a driver. This is just a personal valet service which is still exciting.
  - op00to 11y ago
    Why can't you box cars in? When I park in an attended lot in NYC and Philly, my car is often boxed in because space is so tight. I either tell them when I expect to be back or wait for them to jockey cars around. With self driving cars, it could be straightforward to program them to move around to extricate a boxed in vehicle.
    - zachrose 11y ago
      And also win big at Rush Hour: http://www.amazon.com/Think-Fun-5000-ThinkFun-Rush/dp/B00000DMER http://www.amazon.com/Think-Fun-5000-ThinkFun-Rush/dp/B00000...
- CamperBob2 11y ago
  (1) They would have to have lanes, else every car have to move every time someone wanted out. Which is no longer necessarily a problem.
  - sandworm101 11y ago
    Why? Are all of these cars going to automagically cooperate in some sort of parking ballet every time the guy at the back wants out?
    - colechristensen 11y ago
      Why not? Valets do this all the time.
    - ceejayoz 11y ago
      Eventually, why not?
mikeash 11y ago
It wouldn't be that much of a win using the feature as it currently stands. You could park them a bit closer together since you don't have to worry about getting the doors open, but that's it. A decent win, allowing maybe 20-30% denser packing, but not huge.
blisterpeanuts 11y ago
Packing tightly is efficient, but not always desirable. Sometimes you need a little more clearance in the rear for loading or unloading large cargo from the trunk or hatch. It's not going to work in a mall parking lot or a supermarket lot where you want to unload into the trunk from a shopping cart.
- chiaro 11y ago
  The ideal would be the car drops you off, parks itself somewhere nearby in a high density area, then returns itself for loading in an open area when you need it.
dang 11y ago
Ok we made the title say 'park'.
chromejs10 11y ago
Only thing about all the self parking stuff is it's a bit too slow. I live in SF, and so far it's been difficult to use self parking in practice. If you take too long you get people pulling up so close to you in the back that you can't reverse, or endless honking. Especially with the Model S auto park since you actually have to pull up a lot farther than a normal person would before you can engage it
trgn 11y ago
I like that idea, but that's basically how they park in many cities around the world already. It's not uncommon for drivers in for example Rome or Brussels to nudge cars with the bumper, to get an almost airtight fit when parallel parking. Underground carparks in Europe are also enormously tight, I don't think robot parking will make it that more packed. The bar is just lower here when it comes to using space efficiently. It's more of a mindset problem than a technological one.
- raldi 11y ago
  But in those places, you still need to leave enough room for a driver to open the door and get in or out. That's a lot of wasted space.
rpearl 11y ago
Why even care about it being your car? How about just a car? At your bidding when you need it and no other time.
- sandworm101 11y ago
  Because I got stuff I want to keep in my car. When I go shopping I sometimes hit more than one store and don't want to carry everything from Costco with me into Home Depo. Also dogs.
  - jon-wood 11y ago
    In that case you'd indicate you need the same car on your return from Home Depot, and have to wait a while for it to show up from the parking lot, whilst people who don't need a specific car just grab the first one in the waiting area outside.
    - sandworm101 11y ago
      And no computer has ever failed to properly hold a reserved car. "See, you know how to take the reservation. You just don't know how to hold the reservation. And that's really the most important part." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T2GmGSNvaM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T2GmGSNvaM
      - obsurveyor 11y ago
        "When your reservation is over or you are finished with the vehicle, please place this key-like device into steering column where the traditional key would." A manual lockout would be a smart thing here. There's all kinds of solutions to the "computers are dumb" problem.
    - aninhumer 11y ago
      I feel like a simpler solution would just be to store anything left in the boot when the car returns to the depot, and put it back in your next car. There could also be a safe for security and privacy. It's slightly less flexible, but for most cases it's much more efficient. I also think it's slightly less error prone, as there's no user input required, and since the stuff gets removed from the car, it's much less likely that anything will end up being sent to another user. At worst, they forget to put your stuff back automatically, and it's relatively easy for them to send another car, or even send your stuff to your house. Indeed, that might even be a service people are interested in if they're doing a lot of shopping, or they take public transport for part of their journey.
beefsack 11y ago
High density automated parking is a solved problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_parking_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_parking_system

by raldi 11y ago

bitJericho 11y ago

Of course it is. It's another TC article.

sandworm101 11y ago

Packed extra dense? They could no doubt shave a few inches here and there, but the basics of parking remain. (1) They would have to have lanes, else every car have to move every time someone wanted out. And these lanes would have to be wide enough that the car with the largest turning radius could still get out reasonably. (2) There would still need to be some standard width for spaces, else a thin car leaving would leave a 3-4' wide space that nobody else could fit into. And a thin car moving into the gap left by a wide car wouldn't be very efficient. (3) Accommodation would still be needed for humans/pedestrians to deal with issues or rescue stuck cars. (4) The new nightmare of the loading area outside stores as autodrive cars line up like cabs at the airport pickup up passengers. At least in a parking lot everyone can load/unload without forcing everyone else to wait. (5) The fire safety rules would still apply. Deep in building codes are provisions for exactly how much of various dangerous things are allowed inside parking lots. A bunch of tightly-packed, battery packed, teslas in a big concrete box is a firefighter's nightmare. Imho far more space could be saved in north america if parking lots had better accommodation for motorcycles. Everyone who rides a bike rather than drive a car effectively saves 3/4 of a parking space if spots are made for them.

mcbutterbunz 11y ago
Not to mention you wouldn't be able to box cars in. You still need to be able to pull the car ou, with or without a driver. This is just a personal valet service which is still exciting.
- op00to 11y ago
  Why can't you box cars in? When I park in an attended lot in NYC and Philly, my car is often boxed in because space is so tight. I either tell them when I expect to be back or wait for them to jockey cars around. With self driving cars, it could be straightforward to program them to move around to extricate a boxed in vehicle.
  - zachrose 11y ago
    And also win big at Rush Hour: http://www.amazon.com/Think-Fun-5000-ThinkFun-Rush/dp/B00000DMER http://www.amazon.com/Think-Fun-5000-ThinkFun-Rush/dp/B00000...
CamperBob2 11y ago
(1) They would have to have lanes, else every car have to move every time someone wanted out. Which is no longer necessarily a problem.
- sandworm101 11y ago
  Why? Are all of these cars going to automagically cooperate in some sort of parking ballet every time the guy at the back wants out?
  - colechristensen 11y ago
    Why not? Valets do this all the time.
  - ceejayoz 11y ago
    Eventually, why not?

mikeash 11y ago

It wouldn't be that much of a win using the feature as it currently stands. You could park them a bit closer together since you don't have to worry about getting the doors open, but that's it. A decent win, allowing maybe 20-30% denser packing, but not huge.

blisterpeanuts 11y ago

Packing tightly is efficient, but not always desirable. Sometimes you need a little more clearance in the rear for loading or unloading large cargo from the trunk or hatch. It's not going to work in a mall parking lot or a supermarket lot where you want to unload into the trunk from a shopping cart.

chiaro 11y ago
The ideal would be the car drops you off, parks itself somewhere nearby in a high density area, then returns itself for loading in an open area when you need it.

dang 11y ago

Ok we made the title say 'park'.

chromejs10 11y ago

Only thing about all the self parking stuff is it's a bit too slow. I live in SF, and so far it's been difficult to use self parking in practice. If you take too long you get people pulling up so close to you in the back that you can't reverse, or endless honking. Especially with the Model S auto park since you actually have to pull up a lot farther than a normal person would before you can engage it

trgn 11y ago

I like that idea, but that's basically how they park in many cities around the world already. It's not uncommon for drivers in for example Rome or Brussels to nudge cars with the bumper, to get an almost airtight fit when parallel parking. Underground carparks in Europe are also enormously tight, I don't think robot parking will make it that more packed. The bar is just lower here when it comes to using space efficiently. It's more of a mindset problem than a technological one.

raldi 11y ago
But in those places, you still need to leave enough room for a driver to open the door and get in or out. That's a lot of wasted space.

rpearl 11y ago

Why even care about it being your car? How about just a car? At your bidding when you need it and no other time.

sandworm101 11y ago
Because I got stuff I want to keep in my car. When I go shopping I sometimes hit more than one store and don't want to carry everything from Costco with me into Home Depo. Also dogs.
- jon-wood 11y ago
  In that case you'd indicate you need the same car on your return from Home Depot, and have to wait a while for it to show up from the parking lot, whilst people who don't need a specific car just grab the first one in the waiting area outside.
  - sandworm101 11y ago
    And no computer has ever failed to properly hold a reserved car. "See, you know how to take the reservation. You just don't know how to hold the reservation. And that's really the most important part." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T2GmGSNvaM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T2GmGSNvaM
    - obsurveyor 11y ago
      "When your reservation is over or you are finished with the vehicle, please place this key-like device into steering column where the traditional key would." A manual lockout would be a smart thing here. There's all kinds of solutions to the "computers are dumb" problem.
  - aninhumer 11y ago
    I feel like a simpler solution would just be to store anything left in the boot when the car returns to the depot, and put it back in your next car. There could also be a safe for security and privacy. It's slightly less flexible, but for most cases it's much more efficient. I also think it's slightly less error prone, as there's no user input required, and since the stuff gets removed from the car, it's much less likely that anything will end up being sent to another user. At worst, they forget to put your stuff back automatically, and it's relatively easy for them to send another car, or even send your stuff to your house. Indeed, that might even be a service people are interested in if they're doing a lot of shopping, or they take public transport for part of their journey.

beefsack 11y ago

High density automated parking is a solved problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_parking_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_parking_system