4 ms·

Does the bill really go to the family or to the jumpers assets/inheritance?

rdancer 11y ago
It goes to the estate, but that is logical, and doesn't elicit as much emotional response, so the only people you hear talking about it are those who don't understand that distinction.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Could you elaborate on that distinction? I definitely do not understand it, but I would like to.
  - vinceguidry 11y ago
    An estate is simply the legal term given to the net worth a person has after they die. There's a legal process that allocates the dead person's resources according to various factors. Generally a person's debts will be satisfied first. Then whatever's left gets divided according to the person's will, if any. If there is no will, a judge will divide assets up amongst surviving relatives. If there is nothing left after satisfying debts, then heirs get nothing. If there is no will and no heirs, the estate goes to the state. Typically if a person's net worth is negative, debts are not passed on to heirs, leaving creditors to sue for relief. Again, jurisdictions vary, and I would expect there are many other factors at play in a country like Japan where keeping the family's social standing intact may be worth paying off those the deceased wronged instead of dragging the dead person's dirty laundry through the court system even if there's no chance of winning. Jurisdictions vary, but I would imagine in a case such as the aforementioned, the state wouldn't take the whole estate, only part, after debts are satisfied. A phenomenal article on this aspect of the "what happens after you die" question is this one: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/nyregion/dying-alone-in-new-york-city.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/nyregion/dying-alone-in-ne...
    - TeMPOraL 11y ago
      Thanks for the clarification and the article! The latter is definitely worth a top-level submission here.
      - vinceguidry 11y ago
        When I tried to submit it, it redirected me to this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10404538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10404538 I get virtually all of my reading material from HN or TheBrowser or ReadThisThing. I then save it to Pocket, getting back to it days or weeks later. I'm so far behind the curve that it doesn't make sense for me to submit anything.
    - rdancer 11y ago
      The creditors have to sue the estate, not the relatives, and if the estate is empty, they are not going to get anything. If they sued the relatives, the suit would be thrown out rather quickly. Heirs are not liable for the deceased's debts. They can choose to, and sometimes do, satisfy them for their own reasons, but there is no way a creditor can force them to do that any more than they can force a random person. Unless Japan has some unorthodox laws that make relatives of successful suicides liable for their debts to Tokyo Metro?
      - vinceguidry 11y ago
        > The creditors have to sue the estate, not the relatives, and if the estate is empty, they are not going to get anything. If they sued the relatives, the suit would be thrown out rather quickly. Heirs are not liable for the deceased's debts. That is definitely the case in the US, but I would hesitate before assuming it's that way everywhere else in the world. I do know that there are cases in Japan where the deceased parents of suicides have had to pay compensation for the externalities of the suicide, in particular for the decreased property value of the apartment that they committed suicide in. I don't know how or why they had to do this, just that it is a thing that happens. http://www.tofugu.com/2012/11/12/japanese-suicide-apartments/http://www.tofugu.com/2012/11/12/japanese-suicide-apartments/ http://www.tofugu.com/2012/11/12/japanese-suicide-apartments...

It goes to the estate, but that is logical, and doesn't elicit as much emotional response, so the only people you hear talking about it are those who don't understand that distinction.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
Could you elaborate on that distinction? I definitely do not understand it, but I would like to.
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  An estate is simply the legal term given to the net worth a person has after they die. There's a legal process that allocates the dead person's resources according to various factors. Generally a person's debts will be satisfied first. Then whatever's left gets divided according to the person's will, if any. If there is no will, a judge will divide assets up amongst surviving relatives. If there is nothing left after satisfying debts, then heirs get nothing. If there is no will and no heirs, the estate goes to the state. Typically if a person's net worth is negative, debts are not passed on to heirs, leaving creditors to sue for relief. Again, jurisdictions vary, and I would expect there are many other factors at play in a country like Japan where keeping the family's social standing intact may be worth paying off those the deceased wronged instead of dragging the dead person's dirty laundry through the court system even if there's no chance of winning. Jurisdictions vary, but I would imagine in a case such as the aforementioned, the state wouldn't take the whole estate, only part, after debts are satisfied. A phenomenal article on this aspect of the "what happens after you die" question is this one: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/nyregion/dying-alone-in-new-york-city.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/nyregion/dying-alone-in-ne...
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    Thanks for the clarification and the article! The latter is definitely worth a top-level submission here.
    - vinceguidry 11y ago
      When I tried to submit it, it redirected me to this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10404538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10404538 I get virtually all of my reading material from HN or TheBrowser or ReadThisThing. I then save it to Pocket, getting back to it days or weeks later. I'm so far behind the curve that it doesn't make sense for me to submit anything.
  - rdancer 11y ago
    The creditors have to sue the estate, not the relatives, and if the estate is empty, they are not going to get anything. If they sued the relatives, the suit would be thrown out rather quickly. Heirs are not liable for the deceased's debts. They can choose to, and sometimes do, satisfy them for their own reasons, but there is no way a creditor can force them to do that any more than they can force a random person. Unless Japan has some unorthodox laws that make relatives of successful suicides liable for their debts to Tokyo Metro?
    - vinceguidry 11y ago
      > The creditors have to sue the estate, not the relatives, and if the estate is empty, they are not going to get anything. If they sued the relatives, the suit would be thrown out rather quickly. Heirs are not liable for the deceased's debts. That is definitely the case in the US, but I would hesitate before assuming it's that way everywhere else in the world. I do know that there are cases in Japan where the deceased parents of suicides have had to pay compensation for the externalities of the suicide, in particular for the decreased property value of the apartment that they committed suicide in. I don't know how or why they had to do this, just that it is a thing that happens. http://www.tofugu.com/2012/11/12/japanese-suicide-apartments/http://www.tofugu.com/2012/11/12/japanese-suicide-apartments/ http://www.tofugu.com/2012/11/12/japanese-suicide-apartments...