4 ms·

Here's an easier fix: assume any options are worthless before you accept a job offer, then if you want to leave you can decide what the lottery ticket is worth.

Here's an easier fix: assume any options are worthless before you accept a job offer, then if you want to leave you can decide what the lottery ticket is worth. I keep seeing ways to "fix" various aspects of startup compensation, but it doesn't make any sense to me. The market determines what companies will pay for employees, and options are a form of payment. If no one was willing to accept 90 day exercise windows, they wouldn't exist. You can make the argument that startup compensation is predatory toward uninformed or naive employees, but that's a two-way street.

kylec 11y ago
The fact that there is a 90 day window probably is not volunteered when the job offer is made, and asking about what will happen after you leave the company isn't something most people are comfortable doing in a job interview. It's hard for market forces to correct this when the information is not readily available to prospective employees.
- p4wnc6 11y ago
  It's similar with asking about severance pay. Employers, in fact, often count on the candidate feeling too nervous that they will look bad to ask about negotiating a severance benefit. However, in start-ups in particular where someone being wrong about growth or certain forecasts can mean significant risk of short term layoffs, almost at any time, getting a severance agreement is quite important. And if the company won't do it, because they think you're somehow trying to game the system for your severance benefit, or because they say something dumb like, "well, no one else has asked for a severance benefit" -- then you know it's probably a company to avoid.
Eridrus 11y ago
I think the rising knowledge of this as a possibility is helping. I certainly didn't know that asking for a longer exercise window was an option when I started at my current work. I will certainly be asking for it when my option refresh comes up now that doing an early exercise is a bigger investment.
- kylec 11y ago
  I certainly didn't know that asking for a longer exercise window was an option when I started at my current work. Is it ever an option? I'd imagine that it's usually impossible to make an exception for a single employee's option exercise window. However, you can use it as a point of information for whether or not you want to accept the job, assuming you dare ask.
  - Eridrus 11y ago
    My employer has been pretty willing to make changes to contracts. I did not ask for any changes to my employment contract, but I know a coworker did and they made the changes; they have been willing to change subsequent paperwork. Large companies are usually unwilling to make changes, but smaller companies are often more flexible. I've argued over multiple employment contracts, hit rate for changes is about 50%. Microsoft most certainly did not budge, smaller consultancies were fine. In any case, I feel like talking about my options when they come up for a refresh is a lot easier since the company has a lot more invested in me at this point.
  - p4wnc6 11y ago
    > Is it ever an option? Literally anything about your terms of employment is open for negotiation. The worst they can do is say no and rescind any offer / end negotiations because they don't like a question you ask. But if someone would reject you merely for asking whether something is possible you should be grateful because you're dodging a huge bullet. In my experience, I've had employers, including one start-up, do all kinds of things, such as (not all at the same place): (1) give me accelerated vesting schedule, (2) reduce the time-frame of the initial cliff from 1 year to 6 months, (3) grant a small severance benefit, (4) put in writing and send an email from my manager to me, CC'd to HR, stating exactly what the terms are for working from home each week, (5) significantly raise the offered salary, (6) put in writing and send an email from my manager CC'd to HR describing specific terms about budget and scheduling for annual conference attendance, (7) raise the amount of vacation time, (8) significantly alter large sections of boiler plate intellectual property restrictions and clauses from the company handbook to exclude certain open source projects I worked on and also to exclude any work I might do in my spare time towards starting my own business, so long as it was not materially competing with the business unit I worked for within the company (this was actually at a very large education technology company, and I was very surprised how willing they were to re-write their standard, legal-approved IP documents). Amazingly, there is only one aspect of my job that I've never been able to successfully negotiate at any employer: working in a private office instead of an awful open-plan space. And, unfortunately, this is probably one of the top 3 preferences for me when choosing a job, because open-plan offices are such a hindrance to productivity. But, physical office layouts can't easily be changed, and companies are often more willing to give hidden status signals, like higher pay, than public status symbols, like a nicer office, because the public signals cause more damage to the internal hierarchy. I have been able to get significant concessions about working from home, though, to supplement the dispreference for open-plan spaces. What really changed for me was reading this: < http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ > and basically just no longer being afraid of someone saying no. I've had three different episodes where I made it to the stage of receiving a formal offer, tried to negotiate, and was told "no." And so I walked away, turned down the jobs. Employers have to learn one way or another that we're not going to work just to get out of the rain. We expect to be paid fairly like anyone else. Long story short -- if they actually value talent, then anything about a specific employment agreement is negotiable. If they don't value talent, then just nope out of there and work somewhere else where they do value talent.
purpled_haze 11y ago
Totally agree. I've even passed up on options in the past also when given the chance between them and alternative compensation. Whenever I hear about my friends finally getting compensated, it is in the 2-3k range, except for the few that were at the top. But, even better than monetary compensation is working on a product or project or for a company that excites you.

kylec 11y ago

The fact that there is a 90 day window probably is not volunteered when the job offer is made, and asking about what will happen after you leave the company isn't something most people are comfortable doing in a job interview. It's hard for market forces to correct this when the information is not readily available to prospective employees.

p4wnc6 11y ago
It's similar with asking about severance pay. Employers, in fact, often count on the candidate feeling too nervous that they will look bad to ask about negotiating a severance benefit. However, in start-ups in particular where someone being wrong about growth or certain forecasts can mean significant risk of short term layoffs, almost at any time, getting a severance agreement is quite important. And if the company won't do it, because they think you're somehow trying to game the system for your severance benefit, or because they say something dumb like, "well, no one else has asked for a severance benefit" -- then you know it's probably a company to avoid.

Eridrus 11y ago

I think the rising knowledge of this as a possibility is helping. I certainly didn't know that asking for a longer exercise window was an option when I started at my current work. I will certainly be asking for it when my option refresh comes up now that doing an early exercise is a bigger investment.

kylec 11y ago
I certainly didn't know that asking for a longer exercise window was an option when I started at my current work. Is it ever an option? I'd imagine that it's usually impossible to make an exception for a single employee's option exercise window. However, you can use it as a point of information for whether or not you want to accept the job, assuming you dare ask.
- Eridrus 11y ago
  My employer has been pretty willing to make changes to contracts. I did not ask for any changes to my employment contract, but I know a coworker did and they made the changes; they have been willing to change subsequent paperwork. Large companies are usually unwilling to make changes, but smaller companies are often more flexible. I've argued over multiple employment contracts, hit rate for changes is about 50%. Microsoft most certainly did not budge, smaller consultancies were fine. In any case, I feel like talking about my options when they come up for a refresh is a lot easier since the company has a lot more invested in me at this point.
- p4wnc6 11y ago
  > Is it ever an option? Literally anything about your terms of employment is open for negotiation. The worst they can do is say no and rescind any offer / end negotiations because they don't like a question you ask. But if someone would reject you merely for asking whether something is possible you should be grateful because you're dodging a huge bullet. In my experience, I've had employers, including one start-up, do all kinds of things, such as (not all at the same place): (1) give me accelerated vesting schedule, (2) reduce the time-frame of the initial cliff from 1 year to 6 months, (3) grant a small severance benefit, (4) put in writing and send an email from my manager to me, CC'd to HR, stating exactly what the terms are for working from home each week, (5) significantly raise the offered salary, (6) put in writing and send an email from my manager CC'd to HR describing specific terms about budget and scheduling for annual conference attendance, (7) raise the amount of vacation time, (8) significantly alter large sections of boiler plate intellectual property restrictions and clauses from the company handbook to exclude certain open source projects I worked on and also to exclude any work I might do in my spare time towards starting my own business, so long as it was not materially competing with the business unit I worked for within the company (this was actually at a very large education technology company, and I was very surprised how willing they were to re-write their standard, legal-approved IP documents). Amazingly, there is only one aspect of my job that I've never been able to successfully negotiate at any employer: working in a private office instead of an awful open-plan space. And, unfortunately, this is probably one of the top 3 preferences for me when choosing a job, because open-plan offices are such a hindrance to productivity. But, physical office layouts can't easily be changed, and companies are often more willing to give hidden status signals, like higher pay, than public status symbols, like a nicer office, because the public signals cause more damage to the internal hierarchy. I have been able to get significant concessions about working from home, though, to supplement the dispreference for open-plan spaces. What really changed for me was reading this: < http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ > and basically just no longer being afraid of someone saying no. I've had three different episodes where I made it to the stage of receiving a formal offer, tried to negotiate, and was told "no." And so I walked away, turned down the jobs. Employers have to learn one way or another that we're not going to work just to get out of the rain. We expect to be paid fairly like anyone else. Long story short -- if they actually value talent, then anything about a specific employment agreement is negotiable. If they don't value talent, then just nope out of there and work somewhere else where they do value talent.

purpled_haze 11y ago

Totally agree. I've even passed up on options in the past also when given the chance between them and alternative compensation. Whenever I hear about my friends finally getting compensated, it is in the 2-3k range, except for the few that were at the top. But, even better than monetary compensation is working on a product or project or for a company that excites you.