6 ms·

I'd say that the realization that you are the only person who is responsible for you is only half-way there. I'd say that full adulthood realization is that yo

I'd say that the realization that you are the only person who is responsible for you is only half-way there. I'd say that full adulthood realization is that you are the only person responsible for you, but you are still responsible for other people. The reason I say that is I've know individuals who have taken the first mantra to mean that they hold no responsibilities to other people. That it is, in a reductio ad absurdum, that a driver has no responsibility to stay off the sidewalk and that the onus should lie entirely on the pedestrians to dodge her vehicle.

intopieces 11y ago
> but you are still responsible for other people. I couldn't disagree with this any more. I've spent years and years of my life trying to be responsible for other people, trying to make their lives the way I thought they 'should' be -- helping people find jobs, encouraging them to do x/y/z. I'd come into people's lives and it'd be like I walked into an old house: "Let's just fix this here, and that there, and pretty soon you'll be so much better than you were before." What an utter waste of time for both parties. Turns out I don't know anything about what's best for other people, and hardly what's best for myself. My life has been much less stressful since accepting that. I'll gladly lend a hand to a friend who asks for it -- but the 'responsible for other people' phase of my life is over.
- gglitch 11y ago
  This seems like an extreme interpretation of "responsibility for other people." There are people in my care whom I'm completely aware I cannot mold into shapes of my choice, but for whom I accept the responsibility of keeping them off the street--and therefore, primarily, of keeping myself in adequate condition to keep them off the street. And I agree with GP; that to me feels like a key element of my adulthood. [Edited for grammar]
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- Retric 11y ago
  My father used to say your not an adult until your third child. I think his point was it's not about being independent so much as juggling responsibly when you can't make everyone happy.
  - mrexroad 11y ago
    this. i've joked before that parenting 3+ young kids is really just figuring out how to ensure one doesn't get neglected any more or less than the others or that it's switching from man-to-man to zone defense. either way, you reach a point where the time/energy/money required to give your loved ones what they need no longer comes from "you" (your sleep/hobbies/friends), but has to be taken from what you can give your other loved ones as you are already maxed physically/mentally/financially. it's then not a matter of "doing everything you can" anymore, but trying to do the "right things" that you can, and balancing consequences of which are dropped and hoping you can mitigate in future. sometimes it works, sometimes it hurts. friends will then joke "and that's why i'm never having kids" or "that's why we're only having one", but it's not "worse", just different.
    - vinceguidry 11y ago
      I personally have made a lot of decisions oriented around the inevitability of this dynamic. I let friends fall away after they move across town or just otherwise lose the ability to stop seeing me regularly. I've walked away from commitments where I'd lost every single reason why I'd made the commitment in the first place, I don't do this lightly. I've let myself become estranged from family for the sole reason they didn't adequately value the effort I went to to see them. One or two children will be all I have, I am never going to start a startup, band, or other such long shot waste of time. I only have so much to give, and I ultimately will always put myself first, because when I put myself first, the quality of what I have to give to the people I truly care about and who care about me goes way up. The people who fall short of that all have their own lives that I am not and never will be responsible for. I've learned this the hard way too many times.
      - Yhippa 11y ago
- dkokelley 11y ago
  Perhaps another way of interpreting that statement is that you are responsible for not imposing yourself on other people. Assuming "other people" to mean any member of the human race, your interpretation would seem to mean "you are responsible for everyone you have any relationship with or to", which I don't think is what the parent commenter meant. Some are suggesting that responsibility for others is implied within a family relationship (spouses, children, elderly parents), but I disagree with this interpretation as it would exclude anyone without those relational ties from being recognized socially as an adult. I'm sure there are orphaned, spouse-less, childless people out there whom we would socially consider adults.
- Outdoorsman 11y ago
  Don't sell your efforts short...sometimes the advice we give others is, at a minimum, the presentation of potential path(s) a person may choose to follow... Being given options, or even being made aware that there are options, especially in the case of children, is a gift that can produce amazing outcomes... How many of us have been given direction, even if unknowingly, by a single sentence uttered by someone trying to "help"? (e.g., "you're really good at organizing things, solving problems, etc...) Individuals are often not very good at identifying their best, and most marketable, talents...sometimes others can offer perspective...
- chongli 11y ago
  When you help people you should make it clear to them that they need to meet you half-way. If they ask for your help, it should be obvious that if they aren't willing to meet you half way then you aren't responsible for them and are probably hurting them by trying to help.
- agumonkey 11y ago
  Reminiscent of the teaching someone to fish. Sometimes I believe mocking was nature's social device to make people reconsider and change their life. It's also easy to give a hand because you're stuck in your own life. (not implying that was your case, but the actual act is similar)
- nether 11y ago
  This is why charity via direct cash disbursements works. You're trusting that people understand their own situations better than you do, in effect respecting the recipients as adults.
  - devonkim 11y ago
    This is very similar to the business and military leadership academic findings across generations that resources and authority should be allocated to those closer to the source of information for greater efficiency and responsiveness as organizations / societies scale. Unfortunately, much of the world seems to believe in a cult of Taylorist management that those that manage and oversee others can best allocate resources because the presumption is that individuals are myopic / too self-important to entrust with potentially catastrophic decisions (this is a false dichotomy even by Taylorist arguments by inductive logic if we now entrust individuals to also be managers with some portion of community resources they manage).
teekert 11y ago
You certainly are not responsible for other people. If you can't see others as beings with equal rights, meaning you don't naturally treat people the way you would like to be treated, you are a sociopath. You are a danger to others and you are why we have a justice system to take such people out of our society. You should not live for other people and other people do not have to live for you. For me being an adult is more about that balance.
- meric 11y ago
  Yeah, definitely send that kid out as soon as they can walk. They have equal rights, and you should not live for them. Throw your elderly mother off into the streets too. Don't even bother walking her to the nursing home, that's her own problem. You do not live for her and it was certainly her problem she lived for you when you yourself were a kid. It's about balance as an adult.
  - teekert 11y ago
    Love is selfish, I take care of my loved ones for selfish reasons and it feels good. It makes them feel good as well, to be loved by someone who wants them to feel good, not to please them, not to please my family, not to do what my culture wants or out of guilt but to be loved sincerely, because it make me feel good. Taking care of them is taking care of myself.
    - meric 11y ago
      What you described is called being responsible for yourself and others, and responsible feels good, because it is good, by good meaning having utility, as determined by natural processes. I don't like your previous comment because it can mislead people into doing something irresponsible even when it doesn't feel good because they think they should only be responsible for themselves and not others.
      - teekert 11y ago
        So you are saying, all human beings somehow are responsible for the happiness (we didn't define what they are responsible for but I'll assume happiness/well being) of all others? Where do you draw the line? Why are you not giving more of your salary to poor people? Who determines what is enough giving? Can I hold you responsible? Or, who can? Or do you perhaps I agree that you may feel responsible but you can't be held responsible... In which case your are not responsible (claiming one is responsible for others is the statement I originally responded to). One can take responsibility for the well being of other, this can feel good. One does not have this responsibility implicitly. Or at least I strongly believe one should not. Example: What is a more desirable situation? A persons taking responsibility for a child out of a deep feeling that it is good of a person feeling forced into taking care of a child because of cultural pressures? (Arguably) The child of person 2 is better off when someone is found that feels natural responsibility for him/her. Luckily most parents feel strong responsibility for the well being of their offspring. For those that don't, we have adoption agencies and other methods to help. Generally our society believes it to be more moral that people can give their child away than to force them into a responsibility they don't want (or know they can't handle). So we already believe, even for our own children, that responsibility is yours to take, not something you have by default and needs to be forced upon you. Forced responsibility is not love, it is anti-love, it will lead to sick relationships. So to come back to the original post: Being adults is about taking responsibility, not about complying to some culture enforce role model that is responsible for others. You can not be forced into taking responsibility (meaning you don't somehow have it) but if you don't take it, you'll end up nowhere (you'll be a homeless person or in jail.)
amalcon 11y ago
Maybe this is better stated as: you are still responsible for your effects on other people. You don't need to feel responsibility for every little thing everyone else does, but to the extent that you hurt someone else, it's on you to make it right.
- ChuckMcM 11y ago
  I like this MUCH better, you are responsible for yourself and the results of the choices you make and actions you take. That combination, once internalized, qualifies you to be an adult. As a parent consider seeking out activities for your kids that will give them an opportunity to live that experience (ideally in a safe way) so that they will understand what is expected of them.
- rprospero 11y ago
  Darn. You're right. It is better stated that way.
samstave 11y ago
This is my personal definition as a sole bread-winner and father to three children and a stay-at-home-mother. Now you know what stress is.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
drumdance 11y ago
I don't know about "for" other people, but definitely "to." The obvious example is showing up to work because it's expected of you, but more generally it's about keeping commitments. Socially, your health, personal goals etc.
agumonkey 11y ago
It's a balancing act. As a kid the group has a natural reaction to support you, they like it because you're a kid and you like it because that's how it's been since you started to breath. Depending on the person, it can be hard to sense how much it is part of your life, but at one point the adult around won't feel as good to support you, they also realize you are 'like them' and should be able to deal with it and they don't have to bear your cross. You also start to empathize a lot more with people and don't feel good whining or asking for help too much as you see that they faced and face the same issue. So the situation level out, or it should. ps: btw, I really wish society would spend a little more time conveying this information. It has very large implications in you and your loved ones life. I also believe that previous eras and/or societies had a clearer path (rites of passage) whereas right now it feels like an existential free-market where you're too easily able to wander around for too long instead of swallowing the pill.

intopieces 11y ago

> but you are still responsible for other people. I couldn't disagree with this any more. I've spent years and years of my life trying to be responsible for other people, trying to make their lives the way I thought they 'should' be -- helping people find jobs, encouraging them to do x/y/z. I'd come into people's lives and it'd be like I walked into an old house: "Let's just fix this here, and that there, and pretty soon you'll be so much better than you were before." What an utter waste of time for both parties. Turns out I don't know anything about what's best for other people, and hardly what's best for myself. My life has been much less stressful since accepting that. I'll gladly lend a hand to a friend who asks for it -- but the 'responsible for other people' phase of my life is over.

gglitch 11y ago
This seems like an extreme interpretation of "responsibility for other people." There are people in my care whom I'm completely aware I cannot mold into shapes of my choice, but for whom I accept the responsibility of keeping them off the street--and therefore, primarily, of keeping myself in adequate condition to keep them off the street. And I agree with GP; that to me feels like a key element of my adulthood. [Edited for grammar]
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Retric 11y ago
My father used to say your not an adult until your third child. I think his point was it's not about being independent so much as juggling responsibly when you can't make everyone happy.
- mrexroad 11y ago
  this. i've joked before that parenting 3+ young kids is really just figuring out how to ensure one doesn't get neglected any more or less than the others or that it's switching from man-to-man to zone defense. either way, you reach a point where the time/energy/money required to give your loved ones what they need no longer comes from "you" (your sleep/hobbies/friends), but has to be taken from what you can give your other loved ones as you are already maxed physically/mentally/financially. it's then not a matter of "doing everything you can" anymore, but trying to do the "right things" that you can, and balancing consequences of which are dropped and hoping you can mitigate in future. sometimes it works, sometimes it hurts. friends will then joke "and that's why i'm never having kids" or "that's why we're only having one", but it's not "worse", just different.
  - vinceguidry 11y ago
    I personally have made a lot of decisions oriented around the inevitability of this dynamic. I let friends fall away after they move across town or just otherwise lose the ability to stop seeing me regularly. I've walked away from commitments where I'd lost every single reason why I'd made the commitment in the first place, I don't do this lightly. I've let myself become estranged from family for the sole reason they didn't adequately value the effort I went to to see them. One or two children will be all I have, I am never going to start a startup, band, or other such long shot waste of time. I only have so much to give, and I ultimately will always put myself first, because when I put myself first, the quality of what I have to give to the people I truly care about and who care about me goes way up. The people who fall short of that all have their own lives that I am not and never will be responsible for. I've learned this the hard way too many times.
    - Yhippa 11y ago
dkokelley 11y ago
Perhaps another way of interpreting that statement is that you are responsible for not imposing yourself on other people. Assuming "other people" to mean any member of the human race, your interpretation would seem to mean "you are responsible for everyone you have any relationship with or to", which I don't think is what the parent commenter meant. Some are suggesting that responsibility for others is implied within a family relationship (spouses, children, elderly parents), but I disagree with this interpretation as it would exclude anyone without those relational ties from being recognized socially as an adult. I'm sure there are orphaned, spouse-less, childless people out there whom we would socially consider adults.
Outdoorsman 11y ago
Don't sell your efforts short...sometimes the advice we give others is, at a minimum, the presentation of potential path(s) a person may choose to follow... Being given options, or even being made aware that there are options, especially in the case of children, is a gift that can produce amazing outcomes... How many of us have been given direction, even if unknowingly, by a single sentence uttered by someone trying to "help"? (e.g., "you're really good at organizing things, solving problems, etc...) Individuals are often not very good at identifying their best, and most marketable, talents...sometimes others can offer perspective...
chongli 11y ago
When you help people you should make it clear to them that they need to meet you half-way. If they ask for your help, it should be obvious that if they aren't willing to meet you half way then you aren't responsible for them and are probably hurting them by trying to help.
agumonkey 11y ago
Reminiscent of the teaching someone to fish. Sometimes I believe mocking was nature's social device to make people reconsider and change their life. It's also easy to give a hand because you're stuck in your own life. (not implying that was your case, but the actual act is similar)
nether 11y ago
This is why charity via direct cash disbursements works. You're trusting that people understand their own situations better than you do, in effect respecting the recipients as adults.
- devonkim 11y ago
  This is very similar to the business and military leadership academic findings across generations that resources and authority should be allocated to those closer to the source of information for greater efficiency and responsiveness as organizations / societies scale. Unfortunately, much of the world seems to believe in a cult of Taylorist management that those that manage and oversee others can best allocate resources because the presumption is that individuals are myopic / too self-important to entrust with potentially catastrophic decisions (this is a false dichotomy even by Taylorist arguments by inductive logic if we now entrust individuals to also be managers with some portion of community resources they manage).

teekert 11y ago

You certainly are not responsible for other people. If you can't see others as beings with equal rights, meaning you don't naturally treat people the way you would like to be treated, you are a sociopath. You are a danger to others and you are why we have a justice system to take such people out of our society. You should not live for other people and other people do not have to live for you. For me being an adult is more about that balance.

meric 11y ago
Yeah, definitely send that kid out as soon as they can walk. They have equal rights, and you should not live for them. Throw your elderly mother off into the streets too. Don't even bother walking her to the nursing home, that's her own problem. You do not live for her and it was certainly her problem she lived for you when you yourself were a kid. It's about balance as an adult.
- teekert 11y ago
  Love is selfish, I take care of my loved ones for selfish reasons and it feels good. It makes them feel good as well, to be loved by someone who wants them to feel good, not to please them, not to please my family, not to do what my culture wants or out of guilt but to be loved sincerely, because it make me feel good. Taking care of them is taking care of myself.
  - meric 11y ago
    What you described is called being responsible for yourself and others, and responsible feels good, because it is good, by good meaning having utility, as determined by natural processes. I don't like your previous comment because it can mislead people into doing something irresponsible even when it doesn't feel good because they think they should only be responsible for themselves and not others.
    - teekert 11y ago
      So you are saying, all human beings somehow are responsible for the happiness (we didn't define what they are responsible for but I'll assume happiness/well being) of all others? Where do you draw the line? Why are you not giving more of your salary to poor people? Who determines what is enough giving? Can I hold you responsible? Or, who can? Or do you perhaps I agree that you may feel responsible but you can't be held responsible... In which case your are not responsible (claiming one is responsible for others is the statement I originally responded to). One can take responsibility for the well being of other, this can feel good. One does not have this responsibility implicitly. Or at least I strongly believe one should not. Example: What is a more desirable situation? A persons taking responsibility for a child out of a deep feeling that it is good of a person feeling forced into taking care of a child because of cultural pressures? (Arguably) The child of person 2 is better off when someone is found that feels natural responsibility for him/her. Luckily most parents feel strong responsibility for the well being of their offspring. For those that don't, we have adoption agencies and other methods to help. Generally our society believes it to be more moral that people can give their child away than to force them into a responsibility they don't want (or know they can't handle). So we already believe, even for our own children, that responsibility is yours to take, not something you have by default and needs to be forced upon you. Forced responsibility is not love, it is anti-love, it will lead to sick relationships. So to come back to the original post: Being adults is about taking responsibility, not about complying to some culture enforce role model that is responsible for others. You can not be forced into taking responsibility (meaning you don't somehow have it) but if you don't take it, you'll end up nowhere (you'll be a homeless person or in jail.)

amalcon 11y ago

Maybe this is better stated as: you are still responsible for your effects on other people. You don't need to feel responsibility for every little thing everyone else does, but to the extent that you hurt someone else, it's on you to make it right.

ChuckMcM 11y ago
I like this MUCH better, you are responsible for yourself and the results of the choices you make and actions you take. That combination, once internalized, qualifies you to be an adult. As a parent consider seeking out activities for your kids that will give them an opportunity to live that experience (ideally in a safe way) so that they will understand what is expected of them.
rprospero 11y ago
Darn. You're right. It is better stated that way.

samstave 11y ago

This is my personal definition as a sole bread-winner and father to three children and a stay-at-home-mother. Now you know what stress is.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

drumdance 11y ago

I don't know about "for" other people, but definitely "to." The obvious example is showing up to work because it's expected of you, but more generally it's about keeping commitments. Socially, your health, personal goals etc.

agumonkey 11y ago

It's a balancing act. As a kid the group has a natural reaction to support you, they like it because you're a kid and you like it because that's how it's been since you started to breath. Depending on the person, it can be hard to sense how much it is part of your life, but at one point the adult around won't feel as good to support you, they also realize you are 'like them' and should be able to deal with it and they don't have to bear your cross. You also start to empathize a lot more with people and don't feel good whining or asking for help too much as you see that they faced and face the same issue. So the situation level out, or it should. ps: btw, I really wish society would spend a little more time conveying this information. It has very large implications in you and your loved ones life. I also believe that previous eras and/or societies had a clearer path (rites of passage) whereas right now it feels like an existential free-market where you're too easily able to wander around for too long instead of swallowing the pill.