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X.Org Might Lose Its Domain Name
- bosdev 11y agoThey're not losing it because of some legal battle or copyright claim, they're losing it because they lost contact with the guy who really owns it, and waited until they had one week to go to make the issue public.
- incepted 11y agoSo they're losing it because either they don't care or they're incompetent. They deserve to lose it either way.
- tgb 11y agoExcept that the article's second paragraph says: > Apparently for the past half-year there have been some "ownership struggles" of the X.Org domain name, which the X.Org Foundation Board of Directors have been trying to resolve in private.
- nly 11y agoStill, if they're fighting for ownership, you'd think whoever has their finger on the button right now would at least have the decency to cough up $10 to renew it. It doesn't really make sense. Mr Shimans name is in the whois database, surely he has the authority? I wonder if anyone has bothered to take a 15 minute drive from MIT to meet him.
- cbhl 11y agoThe renewal rate might be closer to $60/year, considering how old the domain is. (That's how much a .com cost in the 90s.)
- x13 11y agoluckily domain prices have changed over time; .org domains are priced annually between $9 - $12, purchased by registrars for ~$7.70 ('12) * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.org#Cost_of_registration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.org#Cost_of_registration * I have had domains registered since '96
- datalist 11y agoPrices of domains (usually; some registries do have premium concepts) are not stuck to their original registration but change over time. x.org is registered with Network Solutions though and they never lowered their prices when domains actually got cheaper (=when the concept of registrars was introduced). So one-year renewal is still US$35 (http://www.networksolutions.com/domain-name-registration/pricing-chart.jsp http://www.networksolutions.com/domain-name-registration/pri...). Nonetheless, in this case $35 should equally not be a problem either.
- datalist 11y agoNot his name is in the database, but only an apparently related email address. Problem is the entire domain does not resolve at the moment.
- colejohnson66 11y agoCouldn't they file a trademark claim to takeover ownership?
- teraflop 11y agoIt's not quite that simple. Owning a trademark doesn't automatically give you the right to seize the corresponding domain names. ICANN has a dispute resolution policy that sets out rules for how such situations are handled: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/policy-2012-02-25-en https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/policy-2012-02-25-en Basically, if someone snaps up the x.org domain, and can make a case that they have any legitimate purpose for it other than impersonating or extorting money from the X.org organization, they get to keep it.
- djsumdog 11y agoNissan.com comes to mind
- fencepost 11y agoNo, they're in danger of massive registration headaches because they don't have a clear chain of proof of migration from the LLC (since dissolved) to the 501(c)3 that succeeded it, and they're either not in contact with the person who was the administrative contact when the LLC existed or he's being unhelpful. I'll note that the listing was last updated in 2007, so his name's been on the contact info for 8+ years - probably at that time they renewed for as long as the system would allow. There are provisions in place for replacing contacts on registered domains when the contact is someone no longer with an organization, and I'm pretty sure those aren't generally all that onerous (since incorrect changes can be reverted) - generally something on organization letterhead, probably a drivers' license photo, that kind of thing. In this case because the originally registering organization no longer exists they basically need proof that either the current foundation is legally the successor entity or they need proof that the domain name was part of the "assets" transferred to the new 501(c)3. They could probably have just sent in a change request on the current letterhead, but I suspect that A) they're no longer at that address either, B) Someone at Verisign said "Hey.... If we force an expiration we can auction this sucker for $$$$$$", or C) Leon Shiman could be expected to object to a change. Another problem is the question of whether there's a registered trademark for X.Org - if they had that, even if someone else snagged the domain I suspect they'd be able to get it back via UDRP. Unfortunately it's not clear from a quick search that it's ever been trademarked, which likely drastically complicates the situation.
- sandworm101 11y agoThey don't need to trademark (verb) X to get a trademark (noun). Registration is a good idea, but failure to register doesn't mean any joe can start using X.org. So long as the organization used the mark in trade (ie sold something and/or took donations) their basic trademark will be protected.
- lucb1e 11y agoThe "(verb)" and "(noun)" actually make it less clear, by the way.
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- edwintorok 11y agoThey've also lost and then regained their 501(c)(3) a few years ago: https://lwn.net/Articles/569098/ https://lwn.net/Articles/569098/
- Buge 11y ago"They guy who really owns it"? I didn't get that from the article. It sounded like it was registered to their LLC which was restructured, and now cannot prove they are still the same organization.
- Kiro 11y agoYou should apologize for spreading disinformation.
- 91bananas 11y agoWhile spreading it may be bad, what will apologizing do?
- feld 11y agothey can file a dispute I guess https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/help/dndr/udrp-en https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/help/dndr/udrp-en edit: according to a verisign employee I know, it costs ~1000-2000USD to do the dispute process but if they have the trademark and it's not being challenged (go to trial) it just gets reviewed at meeting and people vote.
- allendoerfer 11y agoA project that loses an asset that valuable, because they cannot get their act together until one week before the disaster is going to die sooner or later anyway, even if you disregard that they are indeed already dying.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- michaelmrose 11y agoLots of assumptions there.
- allendoerfer 11y agoIt is my personal opinion, that I expressed in a commentary (definition: an expression of opinions or offering of explanations about an event or situation) section on the internet.
- miander 11y agoWhich is also why it's a good place for people to critique your opinion. On that note, I believe you are invoking a fallacy by the name of "I'm entitled to my opinion".
- elbigbad 11y agoSo can they just re-register it when it expires, or is the reason they can't do that because lots of people will be waiting to register it at the moment it expires?
- tgb 11y agoThat's an interesting question given that one letter domain names for .org are generally not available, x.org was grandfathered in.
- lips 11y agoMy first thought was: "Get a bunch of folks with affinity for x.org to variously try and pick it up when released, and then gift it to them."
- viraptor 11y agoPeople are queueing up to take over any domain with moderate amount of traffic. Since the expiry time is public, there are lists of soon-expiring domains. This is way worse for a heavy traffic domain, and probably ridiculous for x.org.
- nickodell 11y agoYou can't register a single-letter .org anymore.
- artursapek 11y agoSo they are currently grandfathered in, and as soon as the record expires it's a dead domain?
- gruez 11y agoyep
- gherkin0 11y agoBut they are being "awarded" [1]. So if it expires, maybe they could get it back since they're a non-profit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-letter_second-level_domain#New_single-letter_.org_domains_being_awarded https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-letter_second-level_dom...
- jayess 11y agoWhat a terrible lack of information in this article.
- andrewd18 11y agoAs is standard for a Phoronix.com "article".
- thieving_magpie 11y agoI wondered how the author had written "more than 10,000 articles".
- GalacticDomin8r 11y agoHa, still not as bad as their "benchmarks" though.
- bjwbell 11y agoWhat's bad about his benchmarks? I've cursory glanced at them before and didn't notice anything in particular (used to write gpu drivers for a living).
- ars 11y agoFrom: https://wiki.gandi.net/en/contacts/troubleshooting/lost-handle https://wiki.gandi.net/en/contacts/troubleshooting/lost-hand... "Since domains can be renewed from any handle, sometimes people create a new handle to renew a domain. (While this is not a problem in itself, it can create confusion, so it is only recommended as a last resort.)" Basically you don't need access to the domain to renew it, you only need access if you want make changes. A random member of the public can renew a domain for you without contacting you. Does it not work that way with Network Solutions? Can someone not just simply renew it for them?
- duskwuff 11y agoI don't know about Network Solutions, but allowing anyone to renew a domain is not the norm. In some situations, it can even pose legal problems. For instance, a somewhat common resolution to domain trademark disputes is for the owner to pledge to discontinue use of a domain and to allow the domain to expire without renewing or transferring it. If anyone is allowed to renew a domain without needing the owner's permission, they can potentially put the owner of a trademark-infringing domain in a sticky situation.
- mmahemoff 11y agoSurely the resolution to any trademark conflict would be a domain transfer or not. "Let it lapse and end up with some other random owner" benefits only the lawyers. That said, I can see why some owners may wish to immediately disavow a domain if they consider it to be a legal or reputational risk. In that case, it can simply be transferred to another owner, so I don't see why it would be a problem for anyone to renew it (though payment fraud might be a separate concern from some registrars).
- toast0 11y agosome TLDs (mostly ccTLDs) have onerous ownership requirements, it might be easier in that case to just have ann agreement to let it be dormant, given whatever circumstances.
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- Animats 11y agoYou used to be able to renew Network Solutions domains without owning them. This didn't give the renewing party any rights; it just put money in. You can't do that online any more. But you might be able to do it over the phone.
- Animats 11y agoUpdate: the expiration date for X.org is now 2025-01-19T05:00:00Z. Somebody paid the bill.
- bitwize 11y agoSince not even the X.Org Foundation is particularly attached to X anymore, they could just let it lapse and register wayland.org or something.
- sliverstorm 11y agoEven if they aren't closely tied to the X software package anymore, they are literally called "the X.Org Foundation". Why wouldn't they want to hang on to x.org?
- monochromatic 11y agoHell, even if they called themselves something completely different... that'd still be a valuable asset.
- twic 11y agoI quite like the sound of xorg.org. Or perhaps they could rent x.org.org off the chap who currently owns org.org.
- derefr 11y agoX.Org.info, the perfect place to find info about a project called X.Org.
- bitwize 11y agoThe X.Org Foundation was formed for stewardship of X, the window system and its canonical implementation. Since X is now deprecated tech (the foundation itself even states that Wayland is the future), a name change is perhaps in order.
- tadfisher 11y agoAt least according to Keith, I don't think X.org officially holds that stance.
- JoshTriplett 11y agoI find myself amazed that they wouldn't just renew it for 10+ years at a time, and do that every couple of years.
- profmonocle 11y agoLooks like it was last renewed nine years ago. The last updated date in the whois record is 2007-01-12.
- datalist 11y agoThe article's statement about the administrative/registration contact is not quite correct. The given email address seems to belong to this person, but he is still not the actual owner/registrant of the domain, which is the LLC. The question now is who is the actual representative, respectively legal successor, of the LLC. This person/entity should be able to get the contact address changed to an address under their control.
- danvet 11y agoTo all the armchair domain admins commenting here: It's a single-letter domain in one of the traditional non-country TLDs. It only exists because it was grandfathered in in 1993 [1] I'm pretty sure no one here ever dealed with such a situation ever. If you try to change anything in its registration without supplying it in a legally watertight package delivered by lawyers nothing at all happens, not even extending the registration as the non-owner. Just check the whois entry and look up the various ICANN domain status codes. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-letter_second-level_domain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-letter_second-level_dom...
- BobCat 11y agoMaybe they should try calling the admin contact? His firm's phone number is easily findable. Interestingly, his website is unresolvable, possibly due to some hero trying to snipe his email?
- GalacticDomin8r 11y agoYeah, I'm sure they hadn't thought of that.
- BobCat 11y agoClearly, they haven't. Why are there so many jerks here these days?
- datalist 11y agoThe domain statuses are not any different from other n-lettered domains. Yes, single-letter domains are grandfathered but I wouldnt be aware of any special mandatory procedures for them as you mentioned. Please do provide a source otherwise.
- monochromatic 11y ago> The domain is currently registered in the name of X.Org Foundation LLC, which the foundation dissolved when forming the 501(c)3 organization. How is it even vaguely possible that there's no paperwork assigning all assets of X.Org Foundation LLC to the 501(c)(3)? Where is the lawyer who handled this for them?
- 0x0 11y agoThere's something odd mentioned right here: http://www.x.org/wiki/BoardOfDirectors/ActionItems/ http://www.x.org/wiki/BoardOfDirectors/ActionItems/ > We lost 501(c)(3) status because the tax returns for the last 3 years didn't get filed on time. This was a surprise(...) > Thanks to the SFLC we have re-gained our 501(c)(3) status.
- davidu 11y agoIs it really that hard for someone at X.org to figure out how to escalate to an exec at NetSol to get a domain renewed?
- davidu 11y agoI emailed a friend at Network Solutions to look into this... we'll see.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- jerrysievert 11y agoi really hope keith is able to pull something off. he's a standup guy (i worked with him in the mid-90's at ncd, where he worked on making X11 even more awesome).
- aurelien 11y agoThat sounds incredible -_-'
- icedchai 11y agoMaybe they should just form a new LLC with the same name as the old one, owned by the new organization.
- anonbanker 11y agoepilogue: the domain was not lost. all conjecture contained herein was for naught.