16 ms·

When Are You Really an Adult?

149 points by lermontov 11y ago

theseatoms 11y ago
How about financial independence? EDIT; key sentence below: > Over the course of his research on this, Jensen Arnett has zeroed in on what he calls “the Big Three” criteria for becoming an adult, the things people rank as what they most need to be a grown-up: taking responsibility for yourself, making independent decisions, and becoming financially independent.
- johnchristopher 11y ago
  > How about financial independence? Lot of adults are running away from their responsibilities even though they are financially independent. Edit: sorry, had not seen the edit when replying.
  - theseatoms 11y ago
    And one can accurately describe that behavior as "childish."
- WalterBright 11y ago
  Those three are really the same thing.
  - theseatoms 11y ago
    I agree, and as the article acknowledges, financial independence is the only one that is objectively quantifiable.
acconrad 11y ago
Good grief that was a really long-winded way of saying "it depends on the person".
- TranquilMarmot 11y ago
  I got about halfway through, then kept scrolling to see how long it really was, especially since I felt that I had gotten the gist of the article... WAY too long for what could be succinctly described in a page or two.
marknutter 11y ago
I hold that there is one very specific moment that signifies the transition from childhood into adulthood that is universal for all people – the moment you first realize that when it comes down to it, you are the only person who is responsible for you. That eventually, the charity of others will run out and all that will be left is your own reflection staring back at you, at which point you will need to decide whether or not to improve your life or check out early. Some people reach this point early on in their lives, and others very late. Some people only reach it after undergoing a difficult period and still others reach it with very little drama or pain. I didn't personally come to this realization until I hit my "rock bottom". People never stop feeling sorry for you, but eventually, everyone stops trying to help. When it clicked, though, it changed my life. I've never been the same since, and I believe that's because I made the transition from being a child to becoming an adult.
- MarkPNeyer 11y ago
  wow, i could have written this exact comment, word for word. same thing happened here.
- _nato_ 11y ago
  I like this~ -- almost like an 'object permanence' for responsibility.
  - throwupper247 11y ago
    Responsability literally means response-ability. It's different to what I'd call self-consciousness, or what another commenter named independence.
- SilasX 11y ago
  You're not an adult until you reach some point where friends/family stop trying to help you?
  - Tushon 11y ago
    OP didn't say that it actually had to happen, just that you had to realize it was possible. Many people will not have to experience something drastic like OP seems to have in order to realize it, but some people don't until that point.
j45 11y ago
The moment my dad said his only worry for me was making sure I was able to learn and handle being responsible for myself and responsibilities I'd have for my life including others.. to realize I had already been doing it for a bit. Beyond that, I think as an adult it's a critical moment to realize it's not about what you get from the world, but what you are able to give, and your ability to think about others as much as you think for your self is critical when you have to work and function with any combination of working in the world, relationships, family and kids.
ergothus 11y ago
I'm approaching 40. I've never been "aimless", and while I can definitely increase how often I take responsibility, I'm doing well. I own a house, am married, taking care of my mother, employed, socking money away in a 401k (probably not fast enough, but it's happening). ...and I've never felt like an adult. I can have the weird dichotomy of having friends young enough to have missed everything I relate to my childhood, friends that I consider "adult", and yet I still feel like I did when I graduated college. I have talked with CEOs and VPs or just other coders that are younger than I, yet I "feel" like they are older, more experienced. I have no idea when I'm really an adult, but I don't expect it will be soon.
- pcurve 11y ago
  I'm in a similar boat as your. My Mom put it the best a few years ago: "Son, I may be in my 60s, but my mind is always in my late 20s." You do toggle between different ages, wearing different adult hats depending on situations and people dealt on hands. But everyone's baseline mind is in their late 20s. At least, that's what I gather from talking to people. :)
  - mahyarm 11y ago
    I feel like I'm fundamentally the same person at 16 myself. Even though many years later I'm wiser, more self-confident, know more, have a more developed personality and less energy. The radical transformations that happen to your mind and personality from 12 to 15 didn't happen at 15 to 18. Probably something to do with puberty.
- rpgmaker 11y ago
  Nobody feels like an adult. It's the world's dirty secret. — quote from Liberal Arts.
- ejk314 11y ago
  A relevant comic: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2651 http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2651
- dizzystar 11y ago
russnewcomer 11y ago
I've frequently thought this over the past few years, and I feel like the conclusion I have is different than others in this thread. I don't becoming an adult is really about you, exactly. It's not about your independence, or your actions. It's about when other people become dependent on you. I think this is the way that it has long been thought of in cultures outside of the post-Enlightenment West. This was my strong opinion after reading Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, (Russia isn't western like the rest of Europe) and Aquinas, Augustine, and Aristotle. I think that this is in part what the Apostle Paul is saying in 1 Corinithians 13:11 ( http://www.esvbible.org/1+Corinthians+13%3A11/ http://www.esvbible.org/1+Corinthians+13%3A11/ ), where you'll note that he doesn't say the equivalent of stopping to be like a child meant I had become a man, but rather I became a man, so I stopped being like a child. I think about soldiers I have met and know. They change when they get to NCO status. I think of the boys I have met from North Omaha, which is arguably one of the worst places in America for young African American males, and that there is a difference between the ones who are the oldest in their families and the ones who are the youngest, even if they are the same age. And I think of my friends, and how we've changed when we've had kids, or when someone started a business and got ( real, not just one of his buddies-while-still-in-high-school ) employees. Adulthood isn't about you, it's about your relationship to others.
- randlet 11y ago
  "Adulthood isn't about you, it's about your relationship to others." Love it!
- brightball 11y ago
  Almost had this exact comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10868715 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10868715
- wordbank 11y ago
  Duh, sorry, but the culture and history of Russia (and neighboring slavic countries) is an example of how to run away from all sorts of responsibilities. Probably it sounds good in our classic books but in reality the only "other people become dependent on you" case is nepotism like in Middle Eastern or Central Asian cultures. But at least people from these cultures care about their elders and far relatives. Russians do not.
sdegutis 11y ago
I'm 30, married, have 4 kids (with one on the way), own a house, and have a good job. But I cannot grow a mustache or beard, except for a small patch under my chin; the best I can do is literally a neck beard. I'll never feel like an adult. Ever.
- anonbanker 11y ago
  grow a goatee.
  - sdegutis 11y ago
    I can't even do that! The tiny little neckbeard doesn't connect to my mustache at all. It doesn't even come up onto my chin. It just makes me look like a weird dorky 19 year old who's trying to grow his first beard and probably trying to enroll in community college.
- beccasanchez 11y ago
  This is hilarious. But do you realize you're implying that women can't be adults? The discussion sounds a lot like 'when do you become a man' than it does 'when do you become an adult.' For instance, most women throughout history were financially dependent on their husband. They would not make independent decisions. They were not solely responsible. Did that mean they weren't adults? The 20-30% of women who still become stay at home moms... they can't grow a beard... they are dependent on their husband or parents for money...
  - cableshaft 11y ago
    Women are adults the instant they sharpie a mustache onto their finger and place it under their nose.
    - Profan 11y ago
      "InstaAdult Sharpies" should be a thing.
  - 11y ago
existencebox 11y ago
I never really liked this question. The article even states verbatim why I have this feeling. "Adulthood is a social construct." So when we're saying "are you an adult?" I'd like to ask what are we REALLY getting at. An ability to handle X class of situations? An ability to make X levels of abstract reasoning about social processes? There are so many and so variable a set of objective and subjective markers that any sort of broad statement seems useless, at best, deceptive and detracting from the actual markers at worst. I had a conversation with my father once, something along the lines of, "We really all just get better at pretending, don't we?" I'm not sure what my "Central point" of this post is, (and it's far from my more rigorously argued ones) so take it as a collection of thoughts on how I've found the most "personal enlightenment" regarding adulthood, as a rather transparent contrived construct; realizing this was (perhaps ironically given my thesis on this) my internal moment of "I have reached adulthood".
vdnkh 11y ago
For me, feeling like an adult means feeling more like myself. It's like there's a core being of who I am, independent of all other factors, which becomes more prominent over time. I suppose it's tangential to the current top post - "when it comes down to it, you are the only person who is responsible for you".
egru 11y ago
When you own a tarp.
- dsfyu404ed 11y ago
  Most teenagers in rural or semi-rural areas are adults by that definition...
anonbanker 11y ago
Adulthood is defined by extreme personal responsibility. I didn't consider making a baby adulthood, or getting a $100k/year job to be adulthood. If anything, I was _less_ responsible for my own actions (ballooning to 360lbs), because I started focusing on the things I _had_ to do, and let my personal development stop due to not having time. Oddly, I realized and _grasped_ the concept that I had to take responsibility for my actions at around 19. But thinking that I had to check these checkboxes off my "Steps to Adulthood" list, I put off everything else in order to achieve it. I didn't actually achieve adulthood from that path, I just had the trappings and appearance of adulthood. But I was still about 13 years old inside. I didn't consider myself an adult until the second time I made a judge run out of the courtroom (I declared a de jure court mid-sentencing after serving him notice of that right). The actual reason is less than relevant, but it was the taking control of my potential, and using it responsibly to help someone else, that brought me to adulthood.
- Kapow 11y ago
  >declared a de jure court What does this mean? Google has no results for that phrase, using any verb tense.
  - tfgg 11y ago
    Appears to be a UK "Freeman on the land" [1,2] alternative legal theory. Can't work out much else since it's pretty incoherent. [1] http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1693 http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1693 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemen_on_the_land https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemen_on_the_land
    - anonbanker 11y ago
      It's extraordinarily rude to associate someone with known terrorists and extremists. especially without proof.
  - anonbanker 11y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_jure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_jure Looks like you're stuck in the google bubble. It was my first link on DuckDuckGo.
narag 11y ago
I remember 26 yo as a turning point for me and most friends around. Not a total change in personality, but we stopped acting like crazy hooligans. OTOH, almost doubling that age, I still feel a little less naive each year.
Raphmedia 11y ago
You are an adult when people stop caring for you and you start caring for other. There is a transition when people stop caring for you and you care for yourself but for no one else yet. We call this teens. Call it what you want, it's not really age dependant. We have simply put words on psychological changes and tied them with age. Some people become adults at 12 years old. Other at 40. I've met "adults" that are only tall children and children that are short adults.
javajosh 11y ago
There is a mode of adulthood that is dangerous and worth mentioning, which is a kind of hard-hearted acceptance that the world isn't fair, life is full of suffering, and there's nothing you (or anyone) can do about except suck it up and keep going. There's a kind of grim determination to continue despite not wanting to. Maybe it's because you have people depending on you, or maybe it's because you're just very stubborn. To some extent, I associate this mode with the opening scene of "There Will Be Blood" when Daniel Day Lewis' character is injured and spares not a single moment on despair, or self-pity, and gets himself out of a miserable situation, against the odds. In this mode, there is little time or urge for compassion, or play, or joy. You are a cog in a large machine that values you only and precisely according to your economic function, who's body participates in multiple overlapping patterns of decay, and that's it. Maybe, if you're religious, you can look forward to a happy afterlife (and indeed one can imagine the role of religion in such a person's life is to offer a reason to not act out on the rage that inevitably underlies such an existence). Almost everyone on HN is lucky to not have to endure this (or at least, for any length of time). And indeed, startups cannot succeed with that grimness. You must maintain your sense of play and joy, I think, to be successful in this space, because this is the most playful and joyful part of the economy! We make stuff that makes people go "ooh" and "ahh", and how can you really do that if you're an adult?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- Robin_Message 11y ago
  This makes me think of the Tribal Leadership book and talk (https://www.ted.com/talks/david_logan_on_tribal_leadership/transcript?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/david_logan_on_tribal_leadership/t... ). Their model has 5 stages. Stage 1 is 'life sucks' and stage 2 is 'my life sucks'. What you describe fits between those stages. Their ideas about stages beyond that are pretty interesting.
jxramos 11y ago
One definition I was fond of and struck by hearing was that you're not an adult when you can take care of yourself but when you can take care of others. We could qualify that all sorts of ways but its short and pithy form makes it stick in the mind well.
aNoob7000 11y ago
Boom... Like being a parent or taking care of parents. For me it was when I got married. At first it was like cool and then it dawned on me that as head of household, I was responsible for more than just ME! Once my kids were born, a different type of adulthood settled in. The decisions that I had made earlier in my life about things like moving, finances, and doing stupid things on the weekends with my wife weren't as easy to make or not even possible. And now as time has passed, I've had to deal with aging parents. I now talk with my mom and dad as an adult and not a child. Our discussions when dealing with serious topics related to health or family now weigh heavier on me. I now carry a sense of responsibility with me that I just can't shake. For me the moment I entered adulthood was the moment I couldn't shake my responsibilities anymore. I also want to point out that I choose to be responsible. Could I decide tomorrow to be irresponsible? Hell yes, but I choose not to because I have people that depend on me. One last thing, being an adult does not stop me from doing kid like things. I still play plenty of video games like my favorite Black OPS 3 (many hours have been thrown into that black hole of time) and watch cartoons like Bleach (soap opera for nerds). My two cents worth.
yarou 11y ago
Notions of adulthood vary from culture to culture. In many cultures, after an arbitrary rite of passage, children are considered "adults". I think, personally, the point at which one becomes an adult is acknowledging the bitter and harsh truth of reality. In some sense, it may be better to remain a child forever, ignorantly blissful.
FussyZeus 11y ago
I believe it's the moment when other people come to you for help, be it money, advice, work, etc. When you're a spigot instead of a bucket. I think that's about the simplest definition possible.
lloyd-christmas 11y ago
When you realize that commercials are targeting you.
squozzer 11y ago
One possible marker of adulthood is achieving a goal after suffering a major setback. For instance, flunking out of college, then transferring elsewhere and obtaining a degree. Or along the same vein, seeing a difficult project through to the end, when everyone has bailed. Lest I sound too self-congratulatory, one could say I am too dumb to know when to quit.
joefkelley 11y ago
As someone who considers himself very recently an adult, the quick and dirty and only-half-joking rule of thumb among my peers is whether someone is paying for their own cell phone plan.
InclinedPlane 11y ago
Adulthood, maturity, is fundamentally about responsibility. Are you a person who is always seeking the help of others or are you a person who is substantially self-reliant and who others go to for help? That's the dividing line for adulthood. Notice that this has nothing to do with style, fashion, or entertainment choices. You can drink scotch, smoke cigars, wear suits every day, and drive a luxury automobile, that doesn't make you more mature. And you can chew bubblegum, watch cartoons, play videogames, wear jeans and hoodies, that doesn't make you less mature.
rikkus 11y ago
Kipling gave it some thought: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/175772 http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/175772
gricardo99 11y ago
The day I got excited about ordering a new vacuum cleaner. I can't say I definitively crossed the threshold of adulthood that day, but the kid in me grieved. He was no longer in control... of everything ;) There was now a "grown-up" in charge.
- kaybe 11y ago
  Did you get a roomba? There are vacuum cleaners out there that warrant a little excitement. :)
brightball 11y ago
You become an adult at the point you have a significant (meaning, major life impact) responsibility to at least one other person. That can come from (examples): 1. Becoming a parent (most people) 2. Becoming an employer (who's employees depend on you and the business for their livelyhood) 3. Other examples that you can come up with At the point that your actions, decisions, the way you present yourself, how you spend money, etc have consequences for more than just you is the point where you really grow up. When it's all about you, you don't really have responsibilities you just have stuff to do.
x3n0ph3n3 11y ago
Lots of parents here claiming they are more adult than non-parents...
- TranquilMarmot 11y ago
  Right. As if somehow having children makes you more mature. I know plenty of parents who are just as immature as before they had kids.
  - nommm-nommm 11y ago
    Seriously. Case in point, my dad. There's nothing special about having kids in and of itself. You don't have to have any skill to do it, in fact you have to do something to avoid it. Plenty of people don't even raise their children and from the ones that do there is plenty who, while perhaps have their children living in their house, don't really raise them or care for them much other than giving them food and shelter. Then there is those who take pleasure in abusing their children. Like everything in life it is what you choose to do with it that actually matters. Worshipping someone for just simply for having a child is stupid.
- notdonspaulding 11y ago
  Not that it excuses any condescension, but it's worth noting that all parents have had experience in both the "don't have kids" and "have kids" camps. When parents talk (complain, whine) about how non-parents have it so easy, what they're really commenting on is the relative change in difficulty they experienced in their own lives when they switched camps, moreso than the difficulty of their life vs. yours.
  - x3n0ph3n3 11y ago
    What does the difficulty of life have to do with being an adult, though? Where does this presumption that "adultness" is correlated with "difficulty of life" come from? Under the same reasoning, those who live in poverty are more adult because life is more challenging difficult for those with fewer resources at their disposal.
pnathan 11y ago
Two points I find have defined it for myself. * When I lived by myself. I had to do it if it was to get done. * When what I paid for myself was by me or depended on me and took on all responsibility for debts.
coffeemug 11y ago
"There is a time in the life of every boy when he for the first time takes the backward view of life. Perhaps that is the moment when he crosses the line into manhood. The boy is walking through the street of his town. He is thinking of the future and of the figure he will cut in the world. Ambitions and regrets awake within him. Suddenly something happens; he stops under a tree and waits as for a voice calling his name. Ghosts of old things creep into his consciousness; the voices outside of himself whisper a message concerning the limitations of life. From being quite sure of himself and his future he becomes not at all sure. If he be an imaginative boy a door is torn open and for the first time he looks out upon the world, seeing, as though they marched in procession before him, the countless figures of men who before his time have come out of nothingness into the world, lived their lives and again disappeared into nothingness. The sadness of sophistication has come to the boy. With a little gasp he sees himself as merely a leaf blown by the wind through the streets of his village. He knows that in spite of all the stout talk of his fellows he must live and die in uncertainty, a thing blown by the winds, a thing destined like corn to wilt in the sun. He shivers and looks eagerly about. The eighteen years he has lived seem but a moment, a breathing space in the long march of humanity. Already he hears death calling. With all his heart he wants to come close to some other human, touch someone with his hands, be touched by the hand of another. If he prefers that the other be a woman, that is because he believes that a woman will be gentle, that she will understand. He wants, most of all, understanding."
sireat 11y ago
"At about age 22 or 23, the brain is pretty much done developing, according to Steinberg, who studies adolescence and brain development." "Adult plasticity still allows for modifications to the brain, but at that point, the neural structures aren’t going to change." The above changes to neuroplasticity really hit me hard when I restarted college in my 30s. Despite "passing" for a 20some student, I realized I learned differently than my younger colleagues. I had to rely on association with my previous knowledge quite a bit more. Learning something completely new became near impossible hill to climb.
orasis 11y ago
You're not an adult until you have children or aging parents to care for.
firewalkwithme 11y ago
You are an adult when every single day consists of doing things you do not want to do. You just do them. Either because you must, or because you have responsibilty or guilt.
- justncase80 11y ago
  So an adult is a slave? Yikes. When you're a kid the appeal of growing up is getting to do whatever you want.
SCAQTony 11y ago
The problem with the Atlantic is that it takes them so long "to land the plane." Always terribly long articles. What I got from it is that 18-year olds, or not really adults, should not be going to war since their full brain development is about 5-years away.
norea-armozel 11y ago
I'm barely an adult. Partly because of my bad childhood where I wasn't accepted by my parents and peers as trans. And partly my fault for not getting my proverbial head out of my own ass (therapy, transitioning, finishing my grad degree). Now at 35 I'm just growing up. And I don't mean the basic stuff like keeping a budget and showing up for work doing a good job. I'm talking about making my own circle of friends, actually being me (gender transition), and not being so craven to get outside of my comfort zone. It just seems to me adulthood is that one thing you can't ever be prepared for either. >_> /rant
Outdoorsman 11y ago
I think you're probably an adult when you transition from the role of being "protected", by some one, or some entity, to the role of "protector"... That is, you've managed your own affairs so that you're now in a position to help others who need help managing theirs... That's the cornerstone of a healthy and productive society--accomplished elders mentoring the young on a consistent basis...
AlexWest 11y ago
Hasn't 'twenty-something', in the popular vernacular usage, already taken on the meaning of a distinct life phase (not quite adult, not still adolescent)?
transfire 11y ago
Never.
- MawNicker 11y ago
  I don't know why you were down-voted. Too terse maybe? It's just another label with moving goal posts. A carrot for those who seek identity. Your answer was short and sweet albeit a tad sour. 10/10: Utterly accurate. Perfect signal/noise. Would read again.
  - transfire 11y ago
    LOL. Well put. Would do the same :)
hkmurakami 11y ago
IMO the moment we become adults is when we become responsible for a life other than our own. This may be a S.O., a child, a parent, etc.
graycat 11y ago
"When are you really an adult?" When you become your own mother and father in the sense that you supply for yourself the sense of judgment, responsibility, and diligence you first got from your parents.
mhuangw 11y ago
I didn't start feeling like an adult until around age 21, and it took multiple failings and heavy introspection to get to that point. However, I'm glad I had the experiences I did, even though it was pretty rough at times, because they made me a better person and shaped me for the future.
tinalumfoil 11y ago
> “Chronological age is not a particularly good indicator [of maturity], but it’s something we need to do for practical purposes,” This may be anecdotal, but I've found a very strong association between age and maturity in my life, especially under 25. If you were to do a blind chat with a 10, 15, 20 and 25 year old do you really believe you wouldn't be able to place them accordingly? But maybe this is just my own biases deluding me. I'd like to think I'm a better man than I was 5 years ago, and will continue to be a better one 5 years in the future. Then again, is maturity really defined as being "a better (wo)man", because according to dictionary.com it's defined by age. Either way I'd be curious for that professor's full quote. Maybe if we could replace "[maturity]" with what she actually said it would shed some insight on what exactly we're talking about.
- Umn44 11y ago
  "But maybe this is just my own biases deluding me. " Maturity is defined differently between different people. Also, you are correct. The mind is not as good as we thought: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ
peter303 11y ago
I couldnt wait to get out and go to college. On my 18th birthday I left, was totally financially for myself. I lived on my own, could legally drink, vote and sign contracts. It was no big deal and I never looked back.
wglb 11y ago
Bah. I think the question itself is silly. The whole topic is centered around Adulthood is a social construct. For that matter, so is childhood. And, at some level, you should realize the classification is, well, hogwash. I first drove a truck when I was 11. My dad drove tractor all summer starting when he was 9. The 3 year old in Dune killed dying enemy soldiers when 3. These are all presumably adult activities. I substantially took care of a farm at the age of 12. If you are lucky enough to figure out who you are at a young age, the rest is semi-interesting narrative. Forget the classifications that others would impose on you. Do what you love, and the rest will sort itself out. I once had the following conversation with my daughter, i think when she was 15. I said, a bit tongue in cheek, "Be patient with your parents, as they are only now catching up to the notion of who you are, or were, and know they will know no more about you or your life than you did when you were six." She gave a silent smile.
underpantsgnome 11y ago
The Atlantic just wants you to feel insecure about your level of maturity so they can sell you shit.
visarga 11y ago
Funny, I once heard someone say you are really an adult when you finally change your winter tires before it starts to snow.
mikeash 11y ago
Being an adult is when you realize that nobody else knows what the hell they're doing either.
biot 11y ago
You're an adult when you no longer give a shit about doing or saying things that others may think are childish. At some point you come to realize that nobody else can dictate what should or shouldn't make you happy.
Confusion 11y ago
I'm not sure Thoreau is such a great example of an adult. As [1] argues The real Thoreau was, in the fullest sense of the word, self-obsessed: narcissistic, fanatical about self-control, adamant that he required nothing beyond himself to understand and thrive in the world. [..] “Walden” is less a cornerstone work of environmental literature than the original cabin porn: a fantasy about rustic life divorced from the reality of living in the woods, and, especially, a fantasy about escaping the entanglements and responsibilities of living among other people. Much of which, as many here argue, is essential to 'being an adult'. [1] http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/pond-scum http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/pond-scum

149 points by lermontov 11y ago

How about financial independence? EDIT; key sentence below: > Over the course of his research on this, Jensen Arnett has zeroed in on what he calls “the Big Three” criteria for becoming an adult, the things people rank as what they most need to be a grown-up: taking responsibility for yourself, making independent decisions, and becoming financially independent.

johnchristopher 11y ago
> How about financial independence? Lot of adults are running away from their responsibilities even though they are financially independent. Edit: sorry, had not seen the edit when replying.
- theseatoms 11y ago
  And one can accurately describe that behavior as "childish."
WalterBright 11y ago
Those three are really the same thing.
- theseatoms 11y ago
  I agree, and as the article acknowledges, financial independence is the only one that is objectively quantifiable.

acconrad 11y ago

Good grief that was a really long-winded way of saying "it depends on the person".

TranquilMarmot 11y ago
I got about halfway through, then kept scrolling to see how long it really was, especially since I felt that I had gotten the gist of the article... WAY too long for what could be succinctly described in a page or two.

marknutter 11y ago

I hold that there is one very specific moment that signifies the transition from childhood into adulthood that is universal for all people – the moment you first realize that when it comes down to it, you are the only person who is responsible for you. That eventually, the charity of others will run out and all that will be left is your own reflection staring back at you, at which point you will need to decide whether or not to improve your life or check out early. Some people reach this point early on in their lives, and others very late. Some people only reach it after undergoing a difficult period and still others reach it with very little drama or pain. I didn't personally come to this realization until I hit my "rock bottom". People never stop feeling sorry for you, but eventually, everyone stops trying to help. When it clicked, though, it changed my life. I've never been the same since, and I believe that's because I made the transition from being a child to becoming an adult.

MarkPNeyer 11y ago
wow, i could have written this exact comment, word for word. same thing happened here.
_nato_ 11y ago
I like this~ -- almost like an 'object permanence' for responsibility.
- throwupper247 11y ago
  Responsability literally means response-ability. It's different to what I'd call self-consciousness, or what another commenter named independence.
SilasX 11y ago
You're not an adult until you reach some point where friends/family stop trying to help you?
- Tushon 11y ago
  OP didn't say that it actually had to happen, just that you had to realize it was possible. Many people will not have to experience something drastic like OP seems to have in order to realize it, but some people don't until that point.

j45 11y ago

The moment my dad said his only worry for me was making sure I was able to learn and handle being responsible for myself and responsibilities I'd have for my life including others.. to realize I had already been doing it for a bit. Beyond that, I think as an adult it's a critical moment to realize it's not about what you get from the world, but what you are able to give, and your ability to think about others as much as you think for your self is critical when you have to work and function with any combination of working in the world, relationships, family and kids.

ergothus 11y ago

I'm approaching 40. I've never been "aimless", and while I can definitely increase how often I take responsibility, I'm doing well. I own a house, am married, taking care of my mother, employed, socking money away in a 401k (probably not fast enough, but it's happening). ...and I've never felt like an adult. I can have the weird dichotomy of having friends young enough to have missed everything I relate to my childhood, friends that I consider "adult", and yet I still feel like I did when I graduated college. I have talked with CEOs and VPs or just other coders that are younger than I, yet I "feel" like they are older, more experienced. I have no idea when I'm really an adult, but I don't expect it will be soon.

pcurve 11y ago
I'm in a similar boat as your. My Mom put it the best a few years ago: "Son, I may be in my 60s, but my mind is always in my late 20s." You do toggle between different ages, wearing different adult hats depending on situations and people dealt on hands. But everyone's baseline mind is in their late 20s. At least, that's what I gather from talking to people. :)
- mahyarm 11y ago
  I feel like I'm fundamentally the same person at 16 myself. Even though many years later I'm wiser, more self-confident, know more, have a more developed personality and less energy. The radical transformations that happen to your mind and personality from 12 to 15 didn't happen at 15 to 18. Probably something to do with puberty.
rpgmaker 11y ago
Nobody feels like an adult. It's the world's dirty secret. — quote from Liberal Arts.
ejk314 11y ago
A relevant comic: http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2651 http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2651
dizzystar 11y ago

russnewcomer 11y ago

I've frequently thought this over the past few years, and I feel like the conclusion I have is different than others in this thread. I don't becoming an adult is really about you, exactly. It's not about your independence, or your actions. It's about when other people become dependent on you. I think this is the way that it has long been thought of in cultures outside of the post-Enlightenment West. This was my strong opinion after reading Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, (Russia isn't western like the rest of Europe) and Aquinas, Augustine, and Aristotle. I think that this is in part what the Apostle Paul is saying in 1 Corinithians 13:11 ( http://www.esvbible.org/1+Corinthians+13%3A11/ http://www.esvbible.org/1+Corinthians+13%3A11/ ), where you'll note that he doesn't say the equivalent of stopping to be like a child meant I had become a man, but rather I became a man, so I stopped being like a child. I think about soldiers I have met and know. They change when they get to NCO status. I think of the boys I have met from North Omaha, which is arguably one of the worst places in America for young African American males, and that there is a difference between the ones who are the oldest in their families and the ones who are the youngest, even if they are the same age. And I think of my friends, and how we've changed when we've had kids, or when someone started a business and got ( real, not just one of his buddies-while-still-in-high-school ) employees. Adulthood isn't about you, it's about your relationship to others.

randlet 11y ago
"Adulthood isn't about you, it's about your relationship to others." Love it!
brightball 11y ago
Almost had this exact comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10868715 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10868715
wordbank 11y ago
Duh, sorry, but the culture and history of Russia (and neighboring slavic countries) is an example of how to run away from all sorts of responsibilities. Probably it sounds good in our classic books but in reality the only "other people become dependent on you" case is nepotism like in Middle Eastern or Central Asian cultures. But at least people from these cultures care about their elders and far relatives. Russians do not.

sdegutis 11y ago

I'm 30, married, have 4 kids (with one on the way), own a house, and have a good job. But I cannot grow a mustache or beard, except for a small patch under my chin; the best I can do is literally a neck beard. I'll never feel like an adult. Ever.

anonbanker 11y ago
grow a goatee.
- sdegutis 11y ago
  I can't even do that! The tiny little neckbeard doesn't connect to my mustache at all. It doesn't even come up onto my chin. It just makes me look like a weird dorky 19 year old who's trying to grow his first beard and probably trying to enroll in community college.
beccasanchez 11y ago
This is hilarious. But do you realize you're implying that women can't be adults? The discussion sounds a lot like 'when do you become a man' than it does 'when do you become an adult.' For instance, most women throughout history were financially dependent on their husband. They would not make independent decisions. They were not solely responsible. Did that mean they weren't adults? The 20-30% of women who still become stay at home moms... they can't grow a beard... they are dependent on their husband or parents for money...
- cableshaft 11y ago
  Women are adults the instant they sharpie a mustache onto their finger and place it under their nose.
  - Profan 11y ago
    "InstaAdult Sharpies" should be a thing.
- 11y ago

existencebox 11y ago

I never really liked this question. The article even states verbatim why I have this feeling. "Adulthood is a social construct." So when we're saying "are you an adult?" I'd like to ask what are we REALLY getting at. An ability to handle X class of situations? An ability to make X levels of abstract reasoning about social processes? There are so many and so variable a set of objective and subjective markers that any sort of broad statement seems useless, at best, deceptive and detracting from the actual markers at worst. I had a conversation with my father once, something along the lines of, "We really all just get better at pretending, don't we?" I'm not sure what my "Central point" of this post is, (and it's far from my more rigorously argued ones) so take it as a collection of thoughts on how I've found the most "personal enlightenment" regarding adulthood, as a rather transparent contrived construct; realizing this was (perhaps ironically given my thesis on this) my internal moment of "I have reached adulthood".

vdnkh 11y ago

For me, feeling like an adult means feeling more like myself. It's like there's a core being of who I am, independent of all other factors, which becomes more prominent over time. I suppose it's tangential to the current top post - "when it comes down to it, you are the only person who is responsible for you".

egru 11y ago

When you own a tarp.

dsfyu404ed 11y ago
Most teenagers in rural or semi-rural areas are adults by that definition...

anonbanker 11y ago

Adulthood is defined by extreme personal responsibility. I didn't consider making a baby adulthood, or getting a $100k/year job to be adulthood. If anything, I was _less_ responsible for my own actions (ballooning to 360lbs), because I started focusing on the things I _had_ to do, and let my personal development stop due to not having time. Oddly, I realized and _grasped_ the concept that I had to take responsibility for my actions at around 19. But thinking that I had to check these checkboxes off my "Steps to Adulthood" list, I put off everything else in order to achieve it. I didn't actually achieve adulthood from that path, I just had the trappings and appearance of adulthood. But I was still about 13 years old inside. I didn't consider myself an adult until the second time I made a judge run out of the courtroom (I declared a de jure court mid-sentencing after serving him notice of that right). The actual reason is less than relevant, but it was the taking control of my potential, and using it responsibly to help someone else, that brought me to adulthood.

Kapow 11y ago
>declared a de jure court What does this mean? Google has no results for that phrase, using any verb tense.
- tfgg 11y ago
  Appears to be a UK "Freeman on the land" [1,2] alternative legal theory. Can't work out much else since it's pretty incoherent. [1] http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1693 http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1693 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemen_on_the_land https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemen_on_the_land
  - anonbanker 11y ago
    It's extraordinarily rude to associate someone with known terrorists and extremists. especially without proof.
- anonbanker 11y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_jure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_jure Looks like you're stuck in the google bubble. It was my first link on DuckDuckGo.

narag 11y ago

I remember 26 yo as a turning point for me and most friends around. Not a total change in personality, but we stopped acting like crazy hooligans. OTOH, almost doubling that age, I still feel a little less naive each year.

Raphmedia 11y ago

You are an adult when people stop caring for you and you start caring for other. There is a transition when people stop caring for you and you care for yourself but for no one else yet. We call this teens. Call it what you want, it's not really age dependant. We have simply put words on psychological changes and tied them with age. Some people become adults at 12 years old. Other at 40. I've met "adults" that are only tall children and children that are short adults.

javajosh 11y ago

There is a mode of adulthood that is dangerous and worth mentioning, which is a kind of hard-hearted acceptance that the world isn't fair, life is full of suffering, and there's nothing you (or anyone) can do about except suck it up and keep going. There's a kind of grim determination to continue despite not wanting to. Maybe it's because you have people depending on you, or maybe it's because you're just very stubborn. To some extent, I associate this mode with the opening scene of "There Will Be Blood" when Daniel Day Lewis' character is injured and spares not a single moment on despair, or self-pity, and gets himself out of a miserable situation, against the odds. In this mode, there is little time or urge for compassion, or play, or joy. You are a cog in a large machine that values you only and precisely according to your economic function, who's body participates in multiple overlapping patterns of decay, and that's it. Maybe, if you're religious, you can look forward to a happy afterlife (and indeed one can imagine the role of religion in such a person's life is to offer a reason to not act out on the rage that inevitably underlies such an existence). Almost everyone on HN is lucky to not have to endure this (or at least, for any length of time). And indeed, startups cannot succeed with that grimness. You must maintain your sense of play and joy, I think, to be successful in this space, because this is the most playful and joyful part of the economy! We make stuff that makes people go "ooh" and "ahh", and how can you really do that if you're an adult?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Robin_Message 11y ago
This makes me think of the Tribal Leadership book and talk (https://www.ted.com/talks/david_logan_on_tribal_leadership/transcript?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/david_logan_on_tribal_leadership/t... ). Their model has 5 stages. Stage 1 is 'life sucks' and stage 2 is 'my life sucks'. What you describe fits between those stages. Their ideas about stages beyond that are pretty interesting.

jxramos 11y ago

One definition I was fond of and struck by hearing was that you're not an adult when you can take care of yourself but when you can take care of others. We could qualify that all sorts of ways but its short and pithy form makes it stick in the mind well.

aNoob7000 11y ago

Boom... Like being a parent or taking care of parents. For me it was when I got married. At first it was like cool and then it dawned on me that as head of household, I was responsible for more than just ME! Once my kids were born, a different type of adulthood settled in. The decisions that I had made earlier in my life about things like moving, finances, and doing stupid things on the weekends with my wife weren't as easy to make or not even possible. And now as time has passed, I've had to deal with aging parents. I now talk with my mom and dad as an adult and not a child. Our discussions when dealing with serious topics related to health or family now weigh heavier on me. I now carry a sense of responsibility with me that I just can't shake. For me the moment I entered adulthood was the moment I couldn't shake my responsibilities anymore. I also want to point out that I choose to be responsible. Could I decide tomorrow to be irresponsible? Hell yes, but I choose not to because I have people that depend on me. One last thing, being an adult does not stop me from doing kid like things. I still play plenty of video games like my favorite Black OPS 3 (many hours have been thrown into that black hole of time) and watch cartoons like Bleach (soap opera for nerds). My two cents worth.

yarou 11y ago

Notions of adulthood vary from culture to culture. In many cultures, after an arbitrary rite of passage, children are considered "adults". I think, personally, the point at which one becomes an adult is acknowledging the bitter and harsh truth of reality. In some sense, it may be better to remain a child forever, ignorantly blissful.

FussyZeus 11y ago

I believe it's the moment when other people come to you for help, be it money, advice, work, etc. When you're a spigot instead of a bucket. I think that's about the simplest definition possible.

lloyd-christmas 11y ago

When you realize that commercials are targeting you.

squozzer 11y ago

One possible marker of adulthood is achieving a goal after suffering a major setback. For instance, flunking out of college, then transferring elsewhere and obtaining a degree. Or along the same vein, seeing a difficult project through to the end, when everyone has bailed. Lest I sound too self-congratulatory, one could say I am too dumb to know when to quit.

joefkelley 11y ago

As someone who considers himself very recently an adult, the quick and dirty and only-half-joking rule of thumb among my peers is whether someone is paying for their own cell phone plan.

InclinedPlane 11y ago

Adulthood, maturity, is fundamentally about responsibility. Are you a person who is always seeking the help of others or are you a person who is substantially self-reliant and who others go to for help? That's the dividing line for adulthood. Notice that this has nothing to do with style, fashion, or entertainment choices. You can drink scotch, smoke cigars, wear suits every day, and drive a luxury automobile, that doesn't make you more mature. And you can chew bubblegum, watch cartoons, play videogames, wear jeans and hoodies, that doesn't make you less mature.

rikkus 11y ago

Kipling gave it some thought: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/175772 http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/175772

gricardo99 11y ago

The day I got excited about ordering a new vacuum cleaner. I can't say I definitively crossed the threshold of adulthood that day, but the kid in me grieved. He was no longer in control... of everything ;) There was now a "grown-up" in charge.

kaybe 11y ago
Did you get a roomba? There are vacuum cleaners out there that warrant a little excitement. :)

brightball 11y ago

You become an adult at the point you have a significant (meaning, major life impact) responsibility to at least one other person. That can come from (examples): 1. Becoming a parent (most people) 2. Becoming an employer (who's employees depend on you and the business for their livelyhood) 3. Other examples that you can come up with At the point that your actions, decisions, the way you present yourself, how you spend money, etc have consequences for more than just you is the point where you really grow up. When it's all about you, you don't really have responsibilities you just have stuff to do.

x3n0ph3n3 11y ago

Lots of parents here claiming they are more adult than non-parents...

TranquilMarmot 11y ago
Right. As if somehow having children makes you more mature. I know plenty of parents who are just as immature as before they had kids.
- nommm-nommm 11y ago
  Seriously. Case in point, my dad. There's nothing special about having kids in and of itself. You don't have to have any skill to do it, in fact you have to do something to avoid it. Plenty of people don't even raise their children and from the ones that do there is plenty who, while perhaps have their children living in their house, don't really raise them or care for them much other than giving them food and shelter. Then there is those who take pleasure in abusing their children. Like everything in life it is what you choose to do with it that actually matters. Worshipping someone for just simply for having a child is stupid.
notdonspaulding 11y ago
Not that it excuses any condescension, but it's worth noting that all parents have had experience in both the "don't have kids" and "have kids" camps. When parents talk (complain, whine) about how non-parents have it so easy, what they're really commenting on is the relative change in difficulty they experienced in their own lives when they switched camps, moreso than the difficulty of their life vs. yours.
- x3n0ph3n3 11y ago
  What does the difficulty of life have to do with being an adult, though? Where does this presumption that "adultness" is correlated with "difficulty of life" come from? Under the same reasoning, those who live in poverty are more adult because life is more challenging difficult for those with fewer resources at their disposal.

pnathan 11y ago

Two points I find have defined it for myself. * When I lived by myself. I had to do it if it was to get done. * When what I paid for myself was by me or depended on me and took on all responsibility for debts.

coffeemug 11y ago

"There is a time in the life of every boy when he for the first time takes the backward view of life. Perhaps that is the moment when he crosses the line into manhood. The boy is walking through the street of his town. He is thinking of the future and of the figure he will cut in the world. Ambitions and regrets awake within him. Suddenly something happens; he stops under a tree and waits as for a voice calling his name. Ghosts of old things creep into his consciousness; the voices outside of himself whisper a message concerning the limitations of life. From being quite sure of himself and his future he becomes not at all sure. If he be an imaginative boy a door is torn open and for the first time he looks out upon the world, seeing, as though they marched in procession before him, the countless figures of men who before his time have come out of nothingness into the world, lived their lives and again disappeared into nothingness. The sadness of sophistication has come to the boy. With a little gasp he sees himself as merely a leaf blown by the wind through the streets of his village. He knows that in spite of all the stout talk of his fellows he must live and die in uncertainty, a thing blown by the winds, a thing destined like corn to wilt in the sun. He shivers and looks eagerly about. The eighteen years he has lived seem but a moment, a breathing space in the long march of humanity. Already he hears death calling. With all his heart he wants to come close to some other human, touch someone with his hands, be touched by the hand of another. If he prefers that the other be a woman, that is because he believes that a woman will be gentle, that she will understand. He wants, most of all, understanding."

sireat 11y ago

"At about age 22 or 23, the brain is pretty much done developing, according to Steinberg, who studies adolescence and brain development." "Adult plasticity still allows for modifications to the brain, but at that point, the neural structures aren’t going to change." The above changes to neuroplasticity really hit me hard when I restarted college in my 30s. Despite "passing" for a 20some student, I realized I learned differently than my younger colleagues. I had to rely on association with my previous knowledge quite a bit more. Learning something completely new became near impossible hill to climb.

orasis 11y ago

You're not an adult until you have children or aging parents to care for.

firewalkwithme 11y ago

You are an adult when every single day consists of doing things you do not want to do. You just do them. Either because you must, or because you have responsibilty or guilt.

justncase80 11y ago
So an adult is a slave? Yikes. When you're a kid the appeal of growing up is getting to do whatever you want.

SCAQTony 11y ago

The problem with the Atlantic is that it takes them so long "to land the plane." Always terribly long articles. What I got from it is that 18-year olds, or not really adults, should not be going to war since their full brain development is about 5-years away.

norea-armozel 11y ago

I'm barely an adult. Partly because of my bad childhood where I wasn't accepted by my parents and peers as trans. And partly my fault for not getting my proverbial head out of my own ass (therapy, transitioning, finishing my grad degree). Now at 35 I'm just growing up. And I don't mean the basic stuff like keeping a budget and showing up for work doing a good job. I'm talking about making my own circle of friends, actually being me (gender transition), and not being so craven to get outside of my comfort zone. It just seems to me adulthood is that one thing you can't ever be prepared for either. >_> /rant

Outdoorsman 11y ago

I think you're probably an adult when you transition from the role of being "protected", by some one, or some entity, to the role of "protector"... That is, you've managed your own affairs so that you're now in a position to help others who need help managing theirs... That's the cornerstone of a healthy and productive society--accomplished elders mentoring the young on a consistent basis...

AlexWest 11y ago

Hasn't 'twenty-something', in the popular vernacular usage, already taken on the meaning of a distinct life phase (not quite adult, not still adolescent)?

transfire 11y ago

Never.

MawNicker 11y ago
I don't know why you were down-voted. Too terse maybe? It's just another label with moving goal posts. A carrot for those who seek identity. Your answer was short and sweet albeit a tad sour. 10/10: Utterly accurate. Perfect signal/noise. Would read again.
- transfire 11y ago
  LOL. Well put. Would do the same :)

hkmurakami 11y ago

IMO the moment we become adults is when we become responsible for a life other than our own. This may be a S.O., a child, a parent, etc.

graycat 11y ago

"When are you really an adult?" When you become your own mother and father in the sense that you supply for yourself the sense of judgment, responsibility, and diligence you first got from your parents.

mhuangw 11y ago

I didn't start feeling like an adult until around age 21, and it took multiple failings and heavy introspection to get to that point. However, I'm glad I had the experiences I did, even though it was pretty rough at times, because they made me a better person and shaped me for the future.

tinalumfoil 11y ago

> “Chronological age is not a particularly good indicator [of maturity], but it’s something we need to do for practical purposes,” This may be anecdotal, but I've found a very strong association between age and maturity in my life, especially under 25. If you were to do a blind chat with a 10, 15, 20 and 25 year old do you really believe you wouldn't be able to place them accordingly? But maybe this is just my own biases deluding me. I'd like to think I'm a better man than I was 5 years ago, and will continue to be a better one 5 years in the future. Then again, is maturity really defined as being "a better (wo)man", because according to dictionary.com it's defined by age. Either way I'd be curious for that professor's full quote. Maybe if we could replace "[maturity]" with what she actually said it would shed some insight on what exactly we're talking about.

Umn44 11y ago
"But maybe this is just my own biases deluding me. " Maturity is defined differently between different people. Also, you are correct. The mind is not as good as we thought: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ

peter303 11y ago

I couldnt wait to get out and go to college. On my 18th birthday I left, was totally financially for myself. I lived on my own, could legally drink, vote and sign contracts. It was no big deal and I never looked back.

wglb 11y ago

Bah. I think the question itself is silly. The whole topic is centered around Adulthood is a social construct. For that matter, so is childhood. And, at some level, you should realize the classification is, well, hogwash. I first drove a truck when I was 11. My dad drove tractor all summer starting when he was 9. The 3 year old in Dune killed dying enemy soldiers when 3. These are all presumably adult activities. I substantially took care of a farm at the age of 12. If you are lucky enough to figure out who you are at a young age, the rest is semi-interesting narrative. Forget the classifications that others would impose on you. Do what you love, and the rest will sort itself out. I once had the following conversation with my daughter, i think when she was 15. I said, a bit tongue in cheek, "Be patient with your parents, as they are only now catching up to the notion of who you are, or were, and know they will know no more about you or your life than you did when you were six." She gave a silent smile.

underpantsgnome 11y ago

The Atlantic just wants you to feel insecure about your level of maturity so they can sell you shit.

visarga 11y ago

Funny, I once heard someone say you are really an adult when you finally change your winter tires before it starts to snow.

mikeash 11y ago

Being an adult is when you realize that nobody else knows what the hell they're doing either.

biot 11y ago

You're an adult when you no longer give a shit about doing or saying things that others may think are childish. At some point you come to realize that nobody else can dictate what should or shouldn't make you happy.

Confusion 11y ago

I'm not sure Thoreau is such a great example of an adult. As [1] argues The real Thoreau was, in the fullest sense of the word, self-obsessed: narcissistic, fanatical about self-control, adamant that he required nothing beyond himself to understand and thrive in the world. [..] “Walden” is less a cornerstone work of environmental literature than the original cabin porn: a fantasy about rustic life divorced from the reality of living in the woods, and, especially, a fantasy about escaping the entanglements and responsibilities of living among other people. Much of which, as many here argue, is essential to 'being an adult'. [1] http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/pond-scum http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/pond-scum