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If you can't see the reasons for someone's bad day, it is very difficult to empathize with them.

eseehausen 11y ago
That depends on your initial assumptions, which you can shape over time (though you may not want to or find it advantageous to do so).
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  Yes, you could engage in a conversation with the individual to better understand their situation. However, in the scenario presented: >some times people are having a really bad day for reasons you can't see and a little bit of empathy goes a long way I don't see how you can have much empathy. Patience, yes. Compassion, yes. Full sharing of feelings, no, purely by the description of the scenario.
  - dsp1234 11y ago
    This is just a case where the person said empathy, but meant sympathy. It's a common mistake to make.
    - dktbs 11y ago
      This seems like a good example of this article posted yesterday: https://pchiusano.github.io/2014-10-11/defensive-writing.html https://pchiusano.github.io/2014-10-11/defensive-writing.htm...
      - brazzledazzle 11y ago
        I guess jsprogrammer didn't learn much from their comments in that thread either.
        jsprogrammer 11y ago
        I guess no one is trolling the personal attack ban hammer, at the moment.
        brazzledazzle 11y ago
        I'm honestly not sure how that's a personal attack (and I'm very much open to understanding your interpretation) but I definitely should have addressed it directly to you and for that I apologize. That said, I do stand by the observation. Nitpicking small details that are unimportant to the overall point serves no one well and results in a waste of everyone's time.
        jsprogrammer 11y ago
        Well, unfortunately your comment is gone now (I did not ask for it to be removed, nor did I 'flag' it [I can't]). If you repost it I could give a better analysis, but basically you were stating that I didn't "learn" anything. 1) You do not know what I "learn" or do not "learn" from any particular thing. 2) You do not know what lesson was being taught (or even if one was trying to be taught). Your consideration that some things are "small details that are unimportant" is purely your consideration. While you may not see the importance of such details, others might. In this case, I think it is important that words actually have meaning and that if some words do not have an apparent logical meaning it should be explored more to come up with words that do have an apparent logical meaning (particularly when words, on their face, are self-contradictory). Or, at least, it should be explored more what the author actually meant, or, might have meant to write in stead.
        brazzledazzle 11y ago
        This is specifically what I said: "I guess jsprogrammer didn't learn much from their comments in that thread either." I don't think that would change anything you said but please feel free to add to to it if needed.
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      I'm not sure sympathy is quite the right word either. Pitying someone is not very productive; I typically find it quite patronizing.
      - dsp1234 11y ago
        'Pity and sorrow' is one of the definitions of the word sympathy, but that's not the meaning generally implied when used in comparison to empathy. "Sympathy (from the Greek words syn "together" and pathos "feeling" which means "fellow-feeling") is the perception, understanding, and reaction to the distress or need of another human being."[0] "When you sympathize with someone, you have compassion for that person, but you don’t necessarily feel her feelings."[1] Generally the difference between empathy and sympathy is the internal response to the feelings of others. If you personally are feeling the same thing as the person, then that's generally empathy, otherwise it's generally sympathy. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathy [1] - http://grammarist.com/usage/empathy-sympathy/ http://grammarist.com/usage/empathy-sympathy/
        jsprogrammer 11y ago
        define pity pit·y ˈpidē/ noun noun: pity 1. the feeling of sorrow and compassion caused by the suffering and misfortunes of others. ok...downmods it is
DanielStraight 11y ago
You can empathize with their feelings regardless the reason for them. If they are frustrated, you understand feeling frustrated, so empathize. If they are angry, you understand feeling angry, so empathize. The precise reason doesn't matter.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  How can you know their feelings, if you do not know the reasons for their feelings? Empathy as understanding someone's frustration requires you to first know that someone is actually frustrated (otherwise you are just imagining).
  - DanielStraight 11y ago
    I don't mean to be dismissive, but I really don't understand what you're trying to say. My understanding is that we are talking about face-to-face interaction with a clearly frustrated person. Why wouldn't you know they were frustrated?
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      I am talking about this situation: >some times people are having a really bad day for reasons you can't see It's not clear how you know someone is having a "really bad day" when you explicitly rule out knowing the reasons why the person is having a really bad day. Maybe they told you they are having a really bad day? That is fine and fairly easy to empathize with. Maybe you are just assuming someone is having a really bad day because of how you perceive their actions?
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - betenoire 11y ago
    Have you had a bad day? If so, then you can empathize with their bad day without knowing their reasons. Personal note, empathy is SO much easier for me the less I know. If they share their problems, I instinctively start dissecting and analyzing their situation.. It's easier to just recognize suffering and to try not to contribute to it or lessen it.

That depends on your initial assumptions, which you can shape over time (though you may not want to or find it advantageous to do so).

jsprogrammer 11y ago
Yes, you could engage in a conversation with the individual to better understand their situation. However, in the scenario presented: >some times people are having a really bad day for reasons you can't see and a little bit of empathy goes a long way I don't see how you can have much empathy. Patience, yes. Compassion, yes. Full sharing of feelings, no, purely by the description of the scenario.
- dsp1234 11y ago
  This is just a case where the person said empathy, but meant sympathy. It's a common mistake to make.
  - dktbs 11y ago
    This seems like a good example of this article posted yesterday: https://pchiusano.github.io/2014-10-11/defensive-writing.html https://pchiusano.github.io/2014-10-11/defensive-writing.htm...
    - brazzledazzle 11y ago
      I guess jsprogrammer didn't learn much from their comments in that thread either.
      - jsprogrammer 11y ago
        I guess no one is trolling the personal attack ban hammer, at the moment.
        brazzledazzle 11y ago
        I'm honestly not sure how that's a personal attack (and I'm very much open to understanding your interpretation) but I definitely should have addressed it directly to you and for that I apologize. That said, I do stand by the observation. Nitpicking small details that are unimportant to the overall point serves no one well and results in a waste of everyone's time.
        jsprogrammer 11y ago
        Well, unfortunately your comment is gone now (I did not ask for it to be removed, nor did I 'flag' it [I can't]). If you repost it I could give a better analysis, but basically you were stating that I didn't "learn" anything. 1) You do not know what I "learn" or do not "learn" from any particular thing. 2) You do not know what lesson was being taught (or even if one was trying to be taught). Your consideration that some things are "small details that are unimportant" is purely your consideration. While you may not see the importance of such details, others might. In this case, I think it is important that words actually have meaning and that if some words do not have an apparent logical meaning it should be explored more to come up with words that do have an apparent logical meaning (particularly when words, on their face, are self-contradictory). Or, at least, it should be explored more what the author actually meant, or, might have meant to write in stead.
        brazzledazzle 11y ago
        This is specifically what I said: "I guess jsprogrammer didn't learn much from their comments in that thread either." I don't think that would change anything you said but please feel free to add to to it if needed.
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    I'm not sure sympathy is quite the right word either. Pitying someone is not very productive; I typically find it quite patronizing.
    - dsp1234 11y ago
      'Pity and sorrow' is one of the definitions of the word sympathy, but that's not the meaning generally implied when used in comparison to empathy. "Sympathy (from the Greek words syn "together" and pathos "feeling" which means "fellow-feeling") is the perception, understanding, and reaction to the distress or need of another human being."[0] "When you sympathize with someone, you have compassion for that person, but you don’t necessarily feel her feelings."[1] Generally the difference between empathy and sympathy is the internal response to the feelings of others. If you personally are feeling the same thing as the person, then that's generally empathy, otherwise it's generally sympathy. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathy [1] - http://grammarist.com/usage/empathy-sympathy/ http://grammarist.com/usage/empathy-sympathy/
      - jsprogrammer 11y ago
        define pity pit·y ˈpidē/ noun noun: pity 1. the feeling of sorrow and compassion caused by the suffering and misfortunes of others. ok...downmods it is

DanielStraight 11y ago

You can empathize with their feelings regardless the reason for them. If they are frustrated, you understand feeling frustrated, so empathize. If they are angry, you understand feeling angry, so empathize. The precise reason doesn't matter.

jsprogrammer 11y ago
How can you know their feelings, if you do not know the reasons for their feelings? Empathy as understanding someone's frustration requires you to first know that someone is actually frustrated (otherwise you are just imagining).
- DanielStraight 11y ago
  I don't mean to be dismissive, but I really don't understand what you're trying to say. My understanding is that we are talking about face-to-face interaction with a clearly frustrated person. Why wouldn't you know they were frustrated?
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    I am talking about this situation: >some times people are having a really bad day for reasons you can't see It's not clear how you know someone is having a "really bad day" when you explicitly rule out knowing the reasons why the person is having a really bad day. Maybe they told you they are having a really bad day? That is fine and fairly easy to empathize with. Maybe you are just assuming someone is having a really bad day because of how you perceive their actions?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- betenoire 11y ago
  Have you had a bad day? If so, then you can empathize with their bad day without knowing their reasons. Personal note, empathy is SO much easier for me the less I know. If they share their problems, I instinctively start dissecting and analyzing their situation.. It's easier to just recognize suffering and to try not to contribute to it or lessen it.