6 ms·

On what basis are you claiming that the government could have equalled SpaceX's achievements? SpaceX has made several firsts that no company or government ever

by graeme 11y ago

On what basis are you claiming that the government could have equalled SpaceX's achievements? SpaceX has made several firsts that no company or government ever has before. Receiving money from the government doesn't mean the government could have done the same thing.

mikeash 11y ago
Landing their first stage was huge, but what other firsts have they had? All the others seem to be of the form "first private X" which excludes government only by definition.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Indeed. They had a lot of "new and put into practice" things - a new engine design, a new way to manufacture rockets, a new way to manufacture engines (were any other operational engines 3D printed before?). They improved on quite a lot of things. But "firsts"? Not many indeed.
craigyk 11y ago
Are you on crack? In what respect does SpaceX's achievements equal large government pushes like the Apollo program, that got a man on the moon almost 50 years ago!! Or the Manhattan Project? With almost complete certainty I can say that government projects could have achieved everything SpaceX has... now wether as efficiently or quickly I'll grant is up for debate.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  I think that it's SpaceX that is one of the few companies that can actually achieve something similar to Apollo or Manhattan Projects. Both the Moon Landings and the atomic bomb development had strong non-monetary motivations. People at all levels, from the lowest worker to the highest manager, cared very much about the project's success, and not just about their own pockets. Just like Elon cares about Tesla and SpaceX. Also, completely unlike most today's companies, and completely unlike today's government.
lmm 11y ago
> SpaceX has made several firsts that no company or government ever has before. Not meaningfully, not yet. They've landed the expensive part of a satellite launch system, which is very cool but the USG did it 30+ years ago. I don't think the difference between a vertical and a horizontal landing is that important. And fundamentally there's no magic private industry pixie dust. A company is just a collection of people, as is a government; they both have to obey the same laws of physics. In some cases competition drives private industry to be more efficient. In some cases the government's long time horizons, trusted position, and ability to do things where the benefits are widely diffused make it more efficient. But it's only ever a matter of efficiency, not of can or can't. > Receiving money from the government doesn't mean the government could have done the same thing. It means that government money was a vital part of making it happen. SpaceX built their system on the back of $X from Musk and $Y from the USG (among other sources). If we took some money out of the X pile and put it in the Y pile, maybe the result would have been worse, maybe it would have been better.
ConfuciusSay 11y ago
Remember that most of SpaceX's core technology was literally given to them by NASA, and on top of that they're getting guaranteed contracts by the government (i.e. the dreaded government funding - they don't know how to allocate capital, right?). Even the landing of the first stage was mostly based on NASA research. Which by the way, NASA had achieved long ago. SpaceX innovated with their cost cutting, and maybe now their manufacturing processes, and by being lucky by benefitting from a period of cost cutting by NASA whereby they could hire a bunch of NASA engineers/scientists.

by graeme 11y ago

mikeash 11y ago

Landing their first stage was huge, but what other firsts have they had? All the others seem to be of the form "first private X" which excludes government only by definition.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
Indeed. They had a lot of "new and put into practice" things - a new engine design, a new way to manufacture rockets, a new way to manufacture engines (were any other operational engines 3D printed before?). They improved on quite a lot of things. But "firsts"? Not many indeed.

craigyk 11y ago

Are you on crack? In what respect does SpaceX's achievements equal large government pushes like the Apollo program, that got a man on the moon almost 50 years ago!! Or the Manhattan Project? With almost complete certainty I can say that government projects could have achieved everything SpaceX has... now wether as efficiently or quickly I'll grant is up for debate.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
I think that it's SpaceX that is one of the few companies that can actually achieve something similar to Apollo or Manhattan Projects. Both the Moon Landings and the atomic bomb development had strong non-monetary motivations. People at all levels, from the lowest worker to the highest manager, cared very much about the project's success, and not just about their own pockets. Just like Elon cares about Tesla and SpaceX. Also, completely unlike most today's companies, and completely unlike today's government.

lmm 11y ago

> SpaceX has made several firsts that no company or government ever has before. Not meaningfully, not yet. They've landed the expensive part of a satellite launch system, which is very cool but the USG did it 30+ years ago. I don't think the difference between a vertical and a horizontal landing is that important. And fundamentally there's no magic private industry pixie dust. A company is just a collection of people, as is a government; they both have to obey the same laws of physics. In some cases competition drives private industry to be more efficient. In some cases the government's long time horizons, trusted position, and ability to do things where the benefits are widely diffused make it more efficient. But it's only ever a matter of efficiency, not of can or can't. > Receiving money from the government doesn't mean the government could have done the same thing. It means that government money was a vital part of making it happen. SpaceX built their system on the back of $X from Musk and $Y from the USG (among other sources). If we took some money out of the X pile and put it in the Y pile, maybe the result would have been worse, maybe it would have been better.

ConfuciusSay 11y ago

Remember that most of SpaceX's core technology was literally given to them by NASA, and on top of that they're getting guaranteed contracts by the government (i.e. the dreaded government funding - they don't know how to allocate capital, right?). Even the landing of the first stage was mostly based on NASA research. Which by the way, NASA had achieved long ago. SpaceX innovated with their cost cutting, and maybe now their manufacturing processes, and by being lucky by benefitting from a period of cost cutting by NASA whereby they could hire a bunch of NASA engineers/scientists.