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There aren't as many pseudo doctors as there are pseudo scientists. This bit of pseudoscience is not as resilient as intelligent design. I think this dent will

by prat 17y ago

There aren't as many pseudo doctors as there are pseudo scientists. This bit of pseudoscience is not as resilient as intelligent design. I think this dent will quickly kill the movement.

scott_s 17y ago
I doubt it. Evidence only sways people who have based their stance on rational reasoning.
- isleyaardvark 17y ago
  Or as the saying goes, "It is impossible to reason someone out of something that he did not reason himself into in the first place."
lbrandy 17y ago
I appreciate your optimism but I fear you haven't been following this very closely. This is not the first time this guy and his work has been completely tossed under a bus. The antivax people have known for a LONG TIME that this guy was being seriously discredited and chalked it up to "big pharma funded" witch hunting. See for yourself: http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/01/naked-intimidation-the-wakefield-inquisition-is-only-the-tip-of-the-autism-censorship-iceberg.html http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/01/naked-intimidation-the-wa... This won't go away until serious and preventable diseases start frequently killing children.
- coolnewtoy 17y ago
  I think it will be more closely tied to progress made in identifying preventable root causes of autism and the diagnosis rates start coming down. I actually doubt the illnesses of other people's children will register as loudly as the autistic symptoms of antivax advocates' own children.
tokenadult 17y ago
I'd like to be as optimistic as you are about the latest follow-up on Wakefield's fraud, but see this research-citing blog post by a physician: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2962 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2962 "None of this mattered. Andrew Wakefield still enjoys a cult of personality among the anti-vaccine crowd that no revelation seems able to dislodge, even the revelation that at the time he was both in the pay of trial lawyers and working on his study, Andrew Wakefield was also applying for a patent for a rival measles vaccine. Indeed, the anti-vaccine propaganda blog Age of Autism bestowed upon him last year its 'Galileo Award' as the 'persecuted' scientist supposedly fighting for truth, justice, and anti-vaccinationism against the pharma-funded or brainwashed minions of the 'Church of the Immaculate Vaccination.' In the meantime, MMR uptake rates in the U.K. have plummeted over the last decade, far below the level needed for herd immunity, to the point where, last year the Health Protection Agency declared measles to be once again endemic in the U.K., 14 years after the local transmission of measles had been halted." See also this subthread here on HN http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1053644 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1053644 and its comments on the same blog post from Science-Based Medicine.
jjs 17y ago
> There aren't as many pseudo doctors as there are pseudo scientists. Are you sure about that? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_medicine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_medicine

by prat 17y ago

There aren't as many pseudo doctors as there are pseudo scientists. This bit of pseudoscience is not as resilient as intelligent design. I think this dent will quickly kill the movement.

scott_s 17y ago

I doubt it. Evidence only sways people who have based their stance on rational reasoning.

isleyaardvark 17y ago
Or as the saying goes, "It is impossible to reason someone out of something that he did not reason himself into in the first place."

lbrandy 17y ago

I appreciate your optimism but I fear you haven't been following this very closely. This is not the first time this guy and his work has been completely tossed under a bus. The antivax people have known for a LONG TIME that this guy was being seriously discredited and chalked it up to "big pharma funded" witch hunting. See for yourself: http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/01/naked-intimidation-the-wakefield-inquisition-is-only-the-tip-of-the-autism-censorship-iceberg.html http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/01/naked-intimidation-the-wa... This won't go away until serious and preventable diseases start frequently killing children.

coolnewtoy 17y ago
I think it will be more closely tied to progress made in identifying preventable root causes of autism and the diagnosis rates start coming down. I actually doubt the illnesses of other people's children will register as loudly as the autistic symptoms of antivax advocates' own children.

tokenadult 17y ago

I'd like to be as optimistic as you are about the latest follow-up on Wakefield's fraud, but see this research-citing blog post by a physician: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2962 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2962 "None of this mattered. Andrew Wakefield still enjoys a cult of personality among the anti-vaccine crowd that no revelation seems able to dislodge, even the revelation that at the time he was both in the pay of trial lawyers and working on his study, Andrew Wakefield was also applying for a patent for a rival measles vaccine. Indeed, the anti-vaccine propaganda blog Age of Autism bestowed upon him last year its 'Galileo Award' as the 'persecuted' scientist supposedly fighting for truth, justice, and anti-vaccinationism against the pharma-funded or brainwashed minions of the 'Church of the Immaculate Vaccination.' In the meantime, MMR uptake rates in the U.K. have plummeted over the last decade, far below the level needed for herd immunity, to the point where, last year the Health Protection Agency declared measles to be once again endemic in the U.K., 14 years after the local transmission of measles had been halted." See also this subthread here on HN http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1053644 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1053644 and its comments on the same blog post from Science-Based Medicine.

jjs 17y ago

> There aren't as many pseudo doctors as there are pseudo scientists. Are you sure about that? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_medicine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_medicine