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Why do people have so much resentment for child porn users? The only harm they're doing is participating in a market in which other participants abuse people. I

by Nutmog 11y ago

Why do people have so much resentment for child porn users? The only harm they're doing is participating in a market in which other participants abuse people. It's equivalent to hating drug users for indirectly funding murderous Mexican drug gangs. Sure it's a bit bad, but HN commenters seem to be much happier with drug users than child porn users. There's also the fact that child-abuse porn is lumped in the same basket as harmless pictures of naked children. The latter in itself it harmless - many parents take photos of their children in the bath, etc. But somehow it transforms from good to worse-than-bad if someone gets sexual pleasure from it.

rurounijones 11y ago
Children were, presumably, not harmed during the making of $DRUG.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  The drug wars kill 1000's of people, including children used to transport the drugs as expendable mules. Nice and small to go through tunnels, you see. But that's a consequence of the illegality of the drugs, not a consequence of the additions or the drug itself. It could be done without.
jacquesm 11y ago
As a parent I can very much see why 'child porn users' should be on the receiving end of some discipline. The market they create is what eventually causes the problem, there is no way that their urges will not lead to trouble unless they keep themselves in check (and I'm sure plenty do). As far as the 'hating drug users' bit goes, I don't particularly like drug users, but to me they're less of a problem than the people that make the drug laws in the first place. Drug addicts are patients just as child porn consumers are patients but in the case of the drug addicts there exists a possible world where their addiction does not have to lead to murderous Mexican drug gangs. I don't see a way in which a child porn consumer gets to have his/her kicks without having to abuse a child and that's why for me the two are different. > The latter in itself it harmless - many parents take photos of their children in the bath, etc. But somehow it transforms from good to worse-than-bad if someone gets sexual pleasure from it. This is the law being abused and it is a pity that this is the case. But when normal people use the world child porn they are most likely not talking about parents taking pictures of their children in the bath. If that is your view of what child porn constitutes then I'm really happy for you. Run a site where you can upload videos for a while and do the reviewing, then we'll have this talk again.
- Nutmog 11y ago
  That's a good argument about drug violence being a consequence of its illegality as well as use, not just use. I wonder then about viewers of violent crime. If anyone has watched an ISIS beheading video, are they are bad as violent child porn viewers? That seems like a closer analogy - the violence is committed for the purpose of making videos for users to watch - and presumably further some goal of attracting fighters or whatever.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    Those videos are abhorrent. I would never watch one simply because there can't possibly be any gain from it. But the one thing those IS characters probably do not realize is that those videos serve yet another purpose: they dehumanize IS, and in that sense they make it a lot easier to sleep well if we decide to end that nonsense in a more drastic fashion. After all, imagine the Nazi's taking selfies and sending multimedia out into the world about what was happening inside the concentration camps. The war would possibly have ended a lot sooner because quite a few people that were still defending the regime and were claiming 'wir haben es nicht gewusst' would have stood up to do something about it. One of those attempts might have succeeded. It would have also served as anti-propaganda in getting other nations to jump on board of the allies train sooner. I see IS as a last ditch attempt at consolidation, if it fails they might as well not have tried hence their flaunting of all the rules, nothing left to lose.
    - Nutmog 11y ago
      You might not like them, but the average person probably doesn't have the same resentment they have towards child porn viewers. I've seen people openly talking about watching such videos on the internet and edited versions are even broadcast on the news. It's not a crime and it's not demonized. Not seeing any strong reasons, I suspect the real answer is that people feel hate towards sexual deviants of any sort just as they always have. It used to be gays but now they're off limits, so pedophiles are about all they have left to hate. Maybe that combined with a bit of "think of the children!". There's also widespread hatred toward incest but it doesn't seem so severe, perhaps because when it's adults, only the former emotion applies, not the latter.
quantumpotato_ 11y ago
Don't forget about the teenager who was charged simultaneously with being a producer & victim of child porn due to hostile courts Virginia, I believe. An 18 & 17 year old (or close to it) couple texting each other.

by Nutmog 11y ago

rurounijones 11y ago

Children were, presumably, not harmed during the making of $DRUG.

jacquesm 11y ago
The drug wars kill 1000's of people, including children used to transport the drugs as expendable mules. Nice and small to go through tunnels, you see. But that's a consequence of the illegality of the drugs, not a consequence of the additions or the drug itself. It could be done without.

jacquesm 11y ago

As a parent I can very much see why 'child porn users' should be on the receiving end of some discipline. The market they create is what eventually causes the problem, there is no way that their urges will not lead to trouble unless they keep themselves in check (and I'm sure plenty do). As far as the 'hating drug users' bit goes, I don't particularly like drug users, but to me they're less of a problem than the people that make the drug laws in the first place. Drug addicts are patients just as child porn consumers are patients but in the case of the drug addicts there exists a possible world where their addiction does not have to lead to murderous Mexican drug gangs. I don't see a way in which a child porn consumer gets to have his/her kicks without having to abuse a child and that's why for me the two are different. > The latter in itself it harmless - many parents take photos of their children in the bath, etc. But somehow it transforms from good to worse-than-bad if someone gets sexual pleasure from it. This is the law being abused and it is a pity that this is the case. But when normal people use the world child porn they are most likely not talking about parents taking pictures of their children in the bath. If that is your view of what child porn constitutes then I'm really happy for you. Run a site where you can upload videos for a while and do the reviewing, then we'll have this talk again.

Nutmog 11y ago
That's a good argument about drug violence being a consequence of its illegality as well as use, not just use. I wonder then about viewers of violent crime. If anyone has watched an ISIS beheading video, are they are bad as violent child porn viewers? That seems like a closer analogy - the violence is committed for the purpose of making videos for users to watch - and presumably further some goal of attracting fighters or whatever.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  Those videos are abhorrent. I would never watch one simply because there can't possibly be any gain from it. But the one thing those IS characters probably do not realize is that those videos serve yet another purpose: they dehumanize IS, and in that sense they make it a lot easier to sleep well if we decide to end that nonsense in a more drastic fashion. After all, imagine the Nazi's taking selfies and sending multimedia out into the world about what was happening inside the concentration camps. The war would possibly have ended a lot sooner because quite a few people that were still defending the regime and were claiming 'wir haben es nicht gewusst' would have stood up to do something about it. One of those attempts might have succeeded. It would have also served as anti-propaganda in getting other nations to jump on board of the allies train sooner. I see IS as a last ditch attempt at consolidation, if it fails they might as well not have tried hence their flaunting of all the rules, nothing left to lose.
  - Nutmog 11y ago
    You might not like them, but the average person probably doesn't have the same resentment they have towards child porn viewers. I've seen people openly talking about watching such videos on the internet and edited versions are even broadcast on the news. It's not a crime and it's not demonized. Not seeing any strong reasons, I suspect the real answer is that people feel hate towards sexual deviants of any sort just as they always have. It used to be gays but now they're off limits, so pedophiles are about all they have left to hate. Maybe that combined with a bit of "think of the children!". There's also widespread hatred toward incest but it doesn't seem so severe, perhaps because when it's adults, only the former emotion applies, not the latter.

quantumpotato_ 11y ago

Don't forget about the teenager who was charged simultaneously with being a producer & victim of child porn due to hostile courts Virginia, I believe. An 18 & 17 year old (or close to it) couple texting each other.