4 ms·

It makes me really sad how big corporations use the power they have to cover, fight and (sometimes) get away with practices that translate into money for them a

by xlayn 11y ago

It makes me really sad how big corporations use the power they have to cover, fight and (sometimes) get away with practices that translate into money for them at the expense of everything else. We have been told since always how we humans will once destroy earth, how one day clean air will be sold as a luxury. Now we can see it happening everywhere, I remember have read that the most contamination California gets it is from China. China effectively destroyed the environment for making money. And then you are remembered how this money doesn't go to the everyday Joe, but to the 1%, who doesn't pay taxes (which are by definition a way of wealth redistribution) therefore destroying preventing Joe again for getting a better life, who also has a worst life because his environment has been destroyed.

danharaj 11y ago
"The Earth isn't dying, it's being killed, and those who are killing it have names and addresses."
- mirimir 11y ago
  "The Earth" isn't being killed. Human activity (emissions of CO2, toxic metals, persistent organic toxics and so on, and deforestation, soil depletion, etc) is changing evolutionary selection parameters in myriad ways for myriad lifeforms. That is indeed unprecedented for a single species. However, it's happened before. For example, the emergence of photosynthesis profoundly altered the atmosphere. That brought extinction for most existing species (anaerobic bacteria). But it obviously set up the game for multicellular life. Anyway, my point is that change is normal. Maybe we humans will drive ourselves extinct. But I rather doubt that. Most other species won't be so lucky, however.
ionforce 11y ago
Not that I disagree with you but I don't think we, collectively, are convinced that we're destroying the Earth. Some people are really dense and will continue to deny well into their graves.
- Nutmog 11y ago
  We're not destroying it. We're changing it. Whether that's bad for us, good for us or neutral for us is not a solved problem. The global warming issue is an issue because there's a risk it'll be bad for us. Nobody has any clear idea what will really happen. It might turn out neutral or good but we want to be careful just in case it turns out very bad.
noonespecial 11y ago
All true. Just don't forget that Joe is complicit each time he chooses that "roll-back" at Walmart and saves a buck over the more responsibly produced item(1). (1) Of course you could argue that Joe can't tell the difference and is too bad off financially for it to matter anyway.
- tamana 11y ago
  People use "I am poor" as an excuse, but most of them came from parents who had less material wealth.
- iheartmemcache 11y ago
  We're just as much to blame every time we whip out or iPhone -- (http://www.cnet.com/news/riots-suicides-and-other-issues-in-foxconns-iphone-factories/ http://www.cnet.com/news/riots-suicides-and-other-issues-in-...) not only involves working conditions so bad that people are driven to literally jump off the roof of the building so frequently that managers placed a net down, but the production of semi-conductors involves tons of rare-earth metals like yttrium. One could argue a cabin-style zero-impact lifestyle would be the ethically sound thing to do, but the land you purchase to till was the result of systemic genocide and internment of tons of Native Americans (modern estimates between 76 million down to less than a quarter million over 4 centuries - obviously not all by the sword but those are still Stalin-esque numbers) over the course of a few centuries which makes the loss WW2 genocide look like a joke. I really can't blame China for doing what any nation does as they progress into an industrialized 'first world' society. Travesties occur on all sorts of level in the pursuit of 'national progress' set by the agenda of a few tens of thousands of people. The populace isn't any more guilty than you and I are of the half a million deaths in Iraq. And I don't think those who are polluting are doing anything different than what the US did as we Manifest-Destiny'd our way through the country, reaping coal, oil, timber, tobacco, and cotton, without which our nation wouldn't have had the funding to progress into what we are (for better or worse..)
  - DanBC 11y ago
    > We're just as much to blame every time we whip out or iPhone -- (http://www.cnet.com/news/riots-suicides-and-other-issues-in-... http://www.cnet.com/news/riots-suicides-and-other-issues-in-...) not only involves working conditions so bad that people are driven to literally jump off the roof of the building But it's not clear that the suicide rate is higher than the rest of the population. > so frequently that managers placed a net down That's a good thing. Restricting access to means and methods is a mainstream bit of suicide prevention. For tall buildings this means putting the telephone number for suicide prevention helplines around, and putting fences up, and installing nets if fences can't be put in place. Of course, that's only the beginning, so if you're complaining that that's all they do then I agree, they need to do more. But putting nets up is more than many places do. How many multistory car parks do you see that have easy access - no fencing, no netting?
Nutmog 11y ago
Actually, in China it does go to the 99% or at least the 50% which is how many people have been moved from poverty to middle class through that industrial work that also caused pollution. The human benefits really have been staggering and could arguably outweigh the health costs of the pollution.
- adaml_623 11y ago
  Do you have any links to some studies that have tried to weigh up the positives and negatives in modern China? Especially how the positives have not been equally shared. I know it's an annoying question but there are a lot of millionaires in China however maybe the '0.1%' getting all the money in China is actually 0.2% rather than 50%

by xlayn 11y ago

danharaj 11y ago

"The Earth isn't dying, it's being killed, and those who are killing it have names and addresses."

mirimir 11y ago
"The Earth" isn't being killed. Human activity (emissions of CO2, toxic metals, persistent organic toxics and so on, and deforestation, soil depletion, etc) is changing evolutionary selection parameters in myriad ways for myriad lifeforms. That is indeed unprecedented for a single species. However, it's happened before. For example, the emergence of photosynthesis profoundly altered the atmosphere. That brought extinction for most existing species (anaerobic bacteria). But it obviously set up the game for multicellular life. Anyway, my point is that change is normal. Maybe we humans will drive ourselves extinct. But I rather doubt that. Most other species won't be so lucky, however.

ionforce 11y ago

Not that I disagree with you but I don't think we, collectively, are convinced that we're destroying the Earth. Some people are really dense and will continue to deny well into their graves.

Nutmog 11y ago
We're not destroying it. We're changing it. Whether that's bad for us, good for us or neutral for us is not a solved problem. The global warming issue is an issue because there's a risk it'll be bad for us. Nobody has any clear idea what will really happen. It might turn out neutral or good but we want to be careful just in case it turns out very bad.

noonespecial 11y ago

All true. Just don't forget that Joe is complicit each time he chooses that "roll-back" at Walmart and saves a buck over the more responsibly produced item(1). (1) Of course you could argue that Joe can't tell the difference and is too bad off financially for it to matter anyway.

tamana 11y ago
People use "I am poor" as an excuse, but most of them came from parents who had less material wealth.
iheartmemcache 11y ago
We're just as much to blame every time we whip out or iPhone -- (http://www.cnet.com/news/riots-suicides-and-other-issues-in-foxconns-iphone-factories/ http://www.cnet.com/news/riots-suicides-and-other-issues-in-...) not only involves working conditions so bad that people are driven to literally jump off the roof of the building so frequently that managers placed a net down, but the production of semi-conductors involves tons of rare-earth metals like yttrium. One could argue a cabin-style zero-impact lifestyle would be the ethically sound thing to do, but the land you purchase to till was the result of systemic genocide and internment of tons of Native Americans (modern estimates between 76 million down to less than a quarter million over 4 centuries - obviously not all by the sword but those are still Stalin-esque numbers) over the course of a few centuries which makes the loss WW2 genocide look like a joke. I really can't blame China for doing what any nation does as they progress into an industrialized 'first world' society. Travesties occur on all sorts of level in the pursuit of 'national progress' set by the agenda of a few tens of thousands of people. The populace isn't any more guilty than you and I are of the half a million deaths in Iraq. And I don't think those who are polluting are doing anything different than what the US did as we Manifest-Destiny'd our way through the country, reaping coal, oil, timber, tobacco, and cotton, without which our nation wouldn't have had the funding to progress into what we are (for better or worse..)
- DanBC 11y ago
  > We're just as much to blame every time we whip out or iPhone -- (http://www.cnet.com/news/riots-suicides-and-other-issues-in-... http://www.cnet.com/news/riots-suicides-and-other-issues-in-...) not only involves working conditions so bad that people are driven to literally jump off the roof of the building But it's not clear that the suicide rate is higher than the rest of the population. > so frequently that managers placed a net down That's a good thing. Restricting access to means and methods is a mainstream bit of suicide prevention. For tall buildings this means putting the telephone number for suicide prevention helplines around, and putting fences up, and installing nets if fences can't be put in place. Of course, that's only the beginning, so if you're complaining that that's all they do then I agree, they need to do more. But putting nets up is more than many places do. How many multistory car parks do you see that have easy access - no fencing, no netting?

Nutmog 11y ago

Actually, in China it does go to the 99% or at least the 50% which is how many people have been moved from poverty to middle class through that industrial work that also caused pollution. The human benefits really have been staggering and could arguably outweigh the health costs of the pollution.

adaml_623 11y ago
Do you have any links to some studies that have tried to weigh up the positives and negatives in modern China? Especially how the positives have not been equally shared. I know it's an annoying question but there are a lot of millionaires in China however maybe the '0.1%' getting all the money in China is actually 0.2% rather than 50%