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Without a doubt, there is something highly mysterious going on that should be explored. What that is, I'm not sure. The only way we can know is to explore it sc

by cnp 11y ago

Without a doubt, there is something highly mysterious going on that should be explored. What that is, I'm not sure. The only way we can know is to explore it scientifically and without bias, accepting the accounts from those participating "as if" true and then working backwards systematically towards a theory or direction. I cannot emphasize enough, what you encounter in the DMT or Aya state can be totally alien and extradimensional, and the themes you find within seem to be consistent across highly disparate cultures as well as time.

splawn 11y ago
The only way we can know is to explore it scientifically and without bias, accepting the accounts from those participating "as if" true and then working backwards systematically towards a theory or direction. DMT is weird fun and all, but I am pretty sure this isn't science. Working "as if" true and working backwards is bias. (See creationism and intelligent design)
- cnp 11y ago
  When I say "as if" true, what I mean is: don't approach the study with the assumption that it's merely a psychological phenomena derived from culture or experience (typical approach), and then dismiss the High Weirdness that each participant encounters as simply a manifestation of said psychology. Collect the data first, find the commonalities between each participant, and then begin discussing the possibilities that emerge from the open minded exploration of a phenomena that has been studied far less than it should.
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    > When I say "as if" true, what I mean is: don't approach the study with the assumption that it's merely a psychological phenomena derived from culture or experience (typical approach) Which is literally saying don't use science. Because that is what any scientists would use as the null hypothesis in these scenarios because it is the most likely explanation. > Collect the data first, find the commonalities between each participant, and then begin discussing the possibilities that emerge from the open minded exploration of a phenomena that has been studied far less than it should. That's called religion. Science requires evidence, and personal experiences while on drugs are evidence of nothing more than psychological phenomena. There is no reason at all to think they're anything more than that.
deleted 11y ago
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domdip 11y ago
To be sure, all of science could reorient itself around your mystical drug experiences, but that could take a really long time. Wouldn't it be easier for you to ask those beings the two prime factors of a really big number? That would settle the question quickly enough. http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/21/universal-love-said-the-cactus-person/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/21/universal-love-said-the...
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  That's only a fair test if ETs have the means of doing so. If they're as stumped by this problem as we are, they'll shrug their tentacles and tell us they're not willing to spend 20 years building a supercomputer capable of factoring large numbers for anything less than a ton of gold-pressed latinum.
gnaritas 11y ago
> Without a doubt That's a claim that can't be substantiated; there is in fact nothing but doubt since there's no evidence to lead to the conclusion that hallucinations in your mind have any connection to the outside world. > accepting the accounts from those participating "as if" true and then working backwards systematically towards a theory or direction. No, that isn't how science works; that's religion. Science doesn't accept claims as if they're true without evidence they are. > I cannot emphasize enough, what you encounter in the DMT or Aya state can be totally alien and extradimensional, and the themes you find within seem to be consistent across highly disparate cultures as well as time. Because it's a drug that affects humans the same way and gives you hallucinations and ego death; not because it in any way connects to extra dimensional reality.

by cnp 11y ago

splawn 11y ago

The only way we can know is to explore it scientifically and without bias, accepting the accounts from those participating "as if" true and then working backwards systematically towards a theory or direction. DMT is weird fun and all, but I am pretty sure this isn't science. Working "as if" true and working backwards is bias. (See creationism and intelligent design)

cnp 11y ago
When I say "as if" true, what I mean is: don't approach the study with the assumption that it's merely a psychological phenomena derived from culture or experience (typical approach), and then dismiss the High Weirdness that each participant encounters as simply a manifestation of said psychology. Collect the data first, find the commonalities between each participant, and then begin discussing the possibilities that emerge from the open minded exploration of a phenomena that has been studied far less than it should.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  > When I say "as if" true, what I mean is: don't approach the study with the assumption that it's merely a psychological phenomena derived from culture or experience (typical approach) Which is literally saying don't use science. Because that is what any scientists would use as the null hypothesis in these scenarios because it is the most likely explanation. > Collect the data first, find the commonalities between each participant, and then begin discussing the possibilities that emerge from the open minded exploration of a phenomena that has been studied far less than it should. That's called religion. Science requires evidence, and personal experiences while on drugs are evidence of nothing more than psychological phenomena. There is no reason at all to think they're anything more than that.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

domdip 11y ago

To be sure, all of science could reorient itself around your mystical drug experiences, but that could take a really long time. Wouldn't it be easier for you to ask those beings the two prime factors of a really big number? That would settle the question quickly enough. http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/21/universal-love-said-the-cactus-person/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/21/universal-love-said-the...

pavel_lishin 11y ago
That's only a fair test if ETs have the means of doing so. If they're as stumped by this problem as we are, they'll shrug their tentacles and tell us they're not willing to spend 20 years building a supercomputer capable of factoring large numbers for anything less than a ton of gold-pressed latinum.

gnaritas 11y ago

> Without a doubt That's a claim that can't be substantiated; there is in fact nothing but doubt since there's no evidence to lead to the conclusion that hallucinations in your mind have any connection to the outside world. > accepting the accounts from those participating "as if" true and then working backwards systematically towards a theory or direction. No, that isn't how science works; that's religion. Science doesn't accept claims as if they're true without evidence they are. > I cannot emphasize enough, what you encounter in the DMT or Aya state can be totally alien and extradimensional, and the themes you find within seem to be consistent across highly disparate cultures as well as time. Because it's a drug that affects humans the same way and gives you hallucinations and ego death; not because it in any way connects to extra dimensional reality.