4 ms·

>First, if you're actually holding a waiter's tip hostage over the ability to split checks, you're a shitty person. A tip is fully extra incentive. The waiter

>First, if you're actually holding a waiter's tip hostage over the ability to split checks, you're a shitty person. A tip is fully extra incentive. The waiter is not my employee, and the social expectation of a tip is a horrible practice (imagine if we replaced the expectation with someone that wasn't financial in nature). >And the kind of person that threatens to leave a bad tip if the waiter doesn't do something is the kind of person that probably tips badly to begin with. This sounds kinda close to a personal attack. Not to mention there is a vast difference between threatening to not leave a tip ("if you don't split this check then I won't tip you") and what the parent post did (bringing up how refusing customer service right before a tip is given is likely to hurt the tip, never mentioning if this was a conscious or subconscious behavior change made by the tipper).

eridius 11y ago
> A tip is fully extra incentive No, it's not. I agree completely that it would be great if we could get rid of tipping and actually pay waiters (and all other tipped professions) an appropriate salary. But they don't get paid an appropriate salary. Tipping is not extra incentive, tipping is their salary. If you don't tip, you're literally expecting someone to serve you for somewhere around $2-$3 an hour. > This sounds kinda close to a personal attack. Why, are you the kind of person who threatens to withhold tips from waiters? Well actually, given your previous paragraph, it sounds like you are that kind of person.
- kuschku 11y ago
  > If you don't tip, you're literally expecting someone to serve you for somewhere around $2-$3 an hour. That is not the issue of the customer, and in no way is the customer even responsible for that. Complain to the business owner raking in profits, not to the customer.
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    Still makes the customer a shitty person.
    - kuschku 11y ago
      I’d argue it makes the employer a shitty person, first and foremost. The customer is still an impolite person, but in second place. There are countries where employees don’t have to rely on donations to be able to pay their bills, showing that it doesn’t have to be this way.
    - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
      How so?
- finzentive 11y ago
  > If you don't tip, you're literally expecting someone to serve you for somewhere around $2-$3 an hour. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't restaurants supposed to pay waiters the difference if they make less than minimum wage in tips?
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    There is a canyon of difference between what is "supposed to" happen, and what does. And before you bring up suing or reporting or anything like that, know that those activities usually require time and money that the employee probably does not have, and will likely cause them to not continue at their job, and through rumors spread through the industry, might cause them to not be able to find another one.
    - finzentive 11y ago
      Be that as it may, it is hardly reasonable that the customer bear the onus of any illegal conduct by the restaurant.
    - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
      The problem is that the anger over the employer's illegal actions is now being directed to the customer. This makes it easier for the employer to get away with this because they can shield themselves better by focusing on the customers who don't tip.
      - eridius 11y ago
        Waiters are supposed to make more than minimum wage anyway. Any waiter that has to worry about whether their employer will screw them over if they earn less is already being significantly screwed over by customers.
  - eridius 11y ago
    Waiters are expected to make over minimum wage once tips are included. Yes, if they don't reach minimum wages, then legally they're supposed to be paid the difference (though there's a vast gulf between "should" and "does", especially in a job like this where speaking up likely means getting fired). But assuming that the waiter is already reaching minimum wage this month, then refusing to tip means that the waiter is only earning $2-$3 per hour for the time spent serving you. Also, being a waiter is absolutely a job that should pay over minimum wage, so if your argument is "but at least they're making minimum wage", you're still significantly under-valuing your waiter's work. Being a waiter is hard work.
s73v3r 11y ago
None of that changes the fact that someone who does those things is a terrible person.

eridius 11y ago

> A tip is fully extra incentive No, it's not. I agree completely that it would be great if we could get rid of tipping and actually pay waiters (and all other tipped professions) an appropriate salary. But they don't get paid an appropriate salary. Tipping is not extra incentive, tipping is their salary. If you don't tip, you're literally expecting someone to serve you for somewhere around $2-$3 an hour. > This sounds kinda close to a personal attack. Why, are you the kind of person who threatens to withhold tips from waiters? Well actually, given your previous paragraph, it sounds like you are that kind of person.

kuschku 11y ago
> If you don't tip, you're literally expecting someone to serve you for somewhere around $2-$3 an hour. That is not the issue of the customer, and in no way is the customer even responsible for that. Complain to the business owner raking in profits, not to the customer.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  Still makes the customer a shitty person.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    I’d argue it makes the employer a shitty person, first and foremost. The customer is still an impolite person, but in second place. There are countries where employees don’t have to rely on donations to be able to pay their bills, showing that it doesn’t have to be this way.
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    How so?
finzentive 11y ago
> If you don't tip, you're literally expecting someone to serve you for somewhere around $2-$3 an hour. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't restaurants supposed to pay waiters the difference if they make less than minimum wage in tips?
- s73v3r 11y ago
  There is a canyon of difference between what is "supposed to" happen, and what does. And before you bring up suing or reporting or anything like that, know that those activities usually require time and money that the employee probably does not have, and will likely cause them to not continue at their job, and through rumors spread through the industry, might cause them to not be able to find another one.
  - finzentive 11y ago
    Be that as it may, it is hardly reasonable that the customer bear the onus of any illegal conduct by the restaurant.
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    The problem is that the anger over the employer's illegal actions is now being directed to the customer. This makes it easier for the employer to get away with this because they can shield themselves better by focusing on the customers who don't tip.
    - eridius 11y ago
      Waiters are supposed to make more than minimum wage anyway. Any waiter that has to worry about whether their employer will screw them over if they earn less is already being significantly screwed over by customers.
- eridius 11y ago
  Waiters are expected to make over minimum wage once tips are included. Yes, if they don't reach minimum wages, then legally they're supposed to be paid the difference (though there's a vast gulf between "should" and "does", especially in a job like this where speaking up likely means getting fired). But assuming that the waiter is already reaching minimum wage this month, then refusing to tip means that the waiter is only earning $2-$3 per hour for the time spent serving you. Also, being a waiter is absolutely a job that should pay over minimum wage, so if your argument is "but at least they're making minimum wage", you're still significantly under-valuing your waiter's work. Being a waiter is hard work.

s73v3r 11y ago

None of that changes the fact that someone who does those things is a terrible person.