8 ms·

Related to the last 2%, I'm always shocked whenever a waiter balks at splitting up a check when multiple people are paying. I always think "Really, you are goin

by herge 11y ago

Related to the last 2%, I'm always shocked whenever a waiter balks at splitting up a check when multiple people are paying. I always think "Really, you are going to annoy me right before I decide how much tip I will give you?"

eridius 11y ago
That's not usually the waiter's fault. POS systems are, generally, a POS. Sure, they should have some way to split bills, but "should" does not always mean "does". Or maybe splitting the bill requires spending a few minutes manually building 2 new checks, which may not be something the waiter has time to do in a busy restaurant. Or maybe the waiter would be happy to do it but the restaurant itself has a policy against splitting checks (or at least, splitting checks for parties under a given size; I've definitely been to places that allow you to use 2 credit cards if you have 6 or more people, and never more than 2 cards).
- cornholio 11y ago
  It might not be his fault, but if he has to do it anyway, why not get paid for it ?
  - eridius 11y ago
    Two things to come to mind. First, if you're actually holding a waiter's tip hostage over the ability to split checks, you're a shitty person. And the kind of person that threatens to leave a bad tip if the waiter doesn't do something is the kind of person that probably tips badly to begin with. Second, time is a zero sum game. If the waiter has to spend several minutes wrestling with the POS to split a check, that's several minutes they can't be serving other tables, which if the restaurant is busy can mean a degraded experience for other diners (and of course if this leads to someone being unhappy with the service that will likely mean a reduced tip). Of course if the restaurant isn't busy and the waiter can afford to spend several minutes on this, then nobody else has to suffer, but if that's the case I wouldn't expect the waiter to balk at splitting the check (assuming they're capable of doing so at all, which as I said before may not be true depending on the POS or on restaurant policy).
    - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
      >First, if you're actually holding a waiter's tip hostage over the ability to split checks, you're a shitty person. A tip is fully extra incentive. The waiter is not my employee, and the social expectation of a tip is a horrible practice (imagine if we replaced the expectation with someone that wasn't financial in nature). >And the kind of person that threatens to leave a bad tip if the waiter doesn't do something is the kind of person that probably tips badly to begin with. This sounds kinda close to a personal attack. Not to mention there is a vast difference between threatening to not leave a tip ("if you don't split this check then I won't tip you") and what the parent post did (bringing up how refusing customer service right before a tip is given is likely to hurt the tip, never mentioning if this was a conscious or subconscious behavior change made by the tipper).
      - eridius 11y ago
        > A tip is fully extra incentive No, it's not. I agree completely that it would be great if we could get rid of tipping and actually pay waiters (and all other tipped professions) an appropriate salary. But they don't get paid an appropriate salary. Tipping is not extra incentive, tipping is their salary. If you don't tip, you're literally expecting someone to serve you for somewhere around $2-$3 an hour. > This sounds kinda close to a personal attack. Why, are you the kind of person who threatens to withhold tips from waiters? Well actually, given your previous paragraph, it sounds like you are that kind of person.
        kuschku 11y ago
        > If you don't tip, you're literally expecting someone to serve you for somewhere around $2-$3 an hour. That is not the issue of the customer, and in no way is the customer even responsible for that. Complain to the business owner raking in profits, not to the customer.
        s73v3r 11y ago
        Still makes the customer a shitty person.
  - bardworx 11y ago
    1. Some POS don't allow to split a check more then X ways 2. If a waiter spends 10 min at the POS splitting a check, other tables are being ignored and management might not like that. Interestingly enough, a server works for three parties: guest, restaurant, and themselves. Sucks but true. Gotta choose lesser of three evil sometimes.
- pjc50 11y ago
  Finally a relevant opportunity to mention my employer's software on HN :) http://www.zonal.co.uk/aztec-epos-solutions/ http://www.zonal.co.uk/aztec-epos-solutions/ Not only does it split the bill N ways easily, it can cope with all manner of per-seat bills and shared items.
FussyZeus 11y ago
You must live in a weird place, I've never once had a waiter even react to splitting a check. In fact the majority ask us first (especially when it's multiple couples at a table). A friend of mine says typically when she splits a bill, both payees will assume the other is a crappy tipper/don't want to tip less, so they'll both tip a higher percentile and she'll occasionally get 1.5-2 times the tip money, so when people ask her to split a bill she just hears more money coming. Purely anecdotal, YMMV, etc. etc. EDIT: I'm curious if downvotes are due to people not wanting wait staff to get bigger tips or if it's because wait staff in my area don't gripe about splitting bills? I never expected this comment to cost me karma, but such it is.
- ambrice 11y ago
  As to why you're getting downvoted, I would assume a lot of people (such as myself) don't agree with your anecdotal evidence that waiters never react badly to splitting a check, unless you "live in a weird place".
  - FussyZeus 11y ago
    That might be why I followed that with "purely anecdotal, YMMV, etc. etc."?
bardworx 11y ago
As a former waiter who spent over a decade in the industry, working everything from casual to high dining, this comment irks me at a personal level. These examples are not directed at you but an explanation of how a waiter sees the situation. 1. Some Point of Sale systems have a limit on how to split a check. I physically cannot split a check more then 6 ways and the customer is asking or 7 ways, then what am I suppose to do? Be "nice" and promise the impossible? So now I pissed off a customer who's about to tip me because I cannot reprogram the POS. 2. The more likely scenario is when a table of 7, who just had pre-fix brunch is asking me to split a $70 check 7 ways which takes my time away from my couple who just dropped $70 by themselves. What customers in restaurants don't understand is that tipping might be optional but my time is money. As a customer is tipping on service, I'm also providing service comparable to the tip I receive. Waiters are really good at "guessing" how much a customer will tip and will act on that belief. Disclaimer: I worked with a ton of awful waiters who were straight up rude to good guests. No guest should ever be treated poorly. Ive also served some awful customers: Some of them tipped very, very well because they wanted to be awful. I loved those assholes and always welcomed them with open arms - money's green regardless. Some were just awful and I tried to steer clear of them. Now as an olive branch; all guests should be treated with outmost respect and all people in the service industry should be as well
- hsod 11y ago
  Argument #1 (the seven ways thing) seems like a red herring, since I would guess it's vanishingly rare compared to splitting 6 or fewer ways. #2 isn't very convincing on it's own. Your inconvenience is not the customer's fault and does not justify being rude to them. Splitting checks is part of the job just like refilling water is part of the job, even if it takes your time away from more profitable tables.
  - bardworx 11y ago
    This is a difficult subject to discuss objectively since both (customer and server) experiences are very personal. Argument #1 happens frequently at locations that host larger parties (steak houses, for example) while almost never occurs at local pub/restaurant. I understand your point of view on #2, however, the job is to server food for the section, not a particular table. I understand its taboo to speak honestly about this - people don't want to hear it; A manager doesn't care that you had to split a check when a table walked out; A guest doesn't care if you have a 7 top when they're ordering a $300 bottle of wine. Everyone has particular feelings about this situation and as a server you're juggling all of your tables, expectations, emotions, and different cost/reward scenarios. Another caveat: when a table walks in and says, prior to ordering, "Can we please split the check 7 ways?" - freaking awesome! Now I know that my notes have to be extra neat and I'm going through steps of service being extra careful to place items. Most people ask to split the check at the end when I rushed through the entire order and my pad is a total mess and I'm trying to decipher what happened so everyone is charged correctly.
draw_down 11y ago
It's usually not their choice to make - why would they care? And docking them on the tip for that is extremely tacky IMO.

by herge 11y ago

eridius 11y ago

That's not usually the waiter's fault. POS systems are, generally, a POS. Sure, they should have some way to split bills, but "should" does not always mean "does". Or maybe splitting the bill requires spending a few minutes manually building 2 new checks, which may not be something the waiter has time to do in a busy restaurant. Or maybe the waiter would be happy to do it but the restaurant itself has a policy against splitting checks (or at least, splitting checks for parties under a given size; I've definitely been to places that allow you to use 2 credit cards if you have 6 or more people, and never more than 2 cards).

cornholio 11y ago
It might not be his fault, but if he has to do it anyway, why not get paid for it ?
- eridius 11y ago
  Two things to come to mind. First, if you're actually holding a waiter's tip hostage over the ability to split checks, you're a shitty person. And the kind of person that threatens to leave a bad tip if the waiter doesn't do something is the kind of person that probably tips badly to begin with. Second, time is a zero sum game. If the waiter has to spend several minutes wrestling with the POS to split a check, that's several minutes they can't be serving other tables, which if the restaurant is busy can mean a degraded experience for other diners (and of course if this leads to someone being unhappy with the service that will likely mean a reduced tip). Of course if the restaurant isn't busy and the waiter can afford to spend several minutes on this, then nobody else has to suffer, but if that's the case I wouldn't expect the waiter to balk at splitting the check (assuming they're capable of doing so at all, which as I said before may not be true depending on the POS or on restaurant policy).
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    >First, if you're actually holding a waiter's tip hostage over the ability to split checks, you're a shitty person. A tip is fully extra incentive. The waiter is not my employee, and the social expectation of a tip is a horrible practice (imagine if we replaced the expectation with someone that wasn't financial in nature). >And the kind of person that threatens to leave a bad tip if the waiter doesn't do something is the kind of person that probably tips badly to begin with. This sounds kinda close to a personal attack. Not to mention there is a vast difference between threatening to not leave a tip ("if you don't split this check then I won't tip you") and what the parent post did (bringing up how refusing customer service right before a tip is given is likely to hurt the tip, never mentioning if this was a conscious or subconscious behavior change made by the tipper).
    - eridius 11y ago
      > A tip is fully extra incentive No, it's not. I agree completely that it would be great if we could get rid of tipping and actually pay waiters (and all other tipped professions) an appropriate salary. But they don't get paid an appropriate salary. Tipping is not extra incentive, tipping is their salary. If you don't tip, you're literally expecting someone to serve you for somewhere around $2-$3 an hour. > This sounds kinda close to a personal attack. Why, are you the kind of person who threatens to withhold tips from waiters? Well actually, given your previous paragraph, it sounds like you are that kind of person.
      - kuschku 11y ago
        > If you don't tip, you're literally expecting someone to serve you for somewhere around $2-$3 an hour. That is not the issue of the customer, and in no way is the customer even responsible for that. Complain to the business owner raking in profits, not to the customer.
        s73v3r 11y ago
        Still makes the customer a shitty person.
- bardworx 11y ago
  1. Some POS don't allow to split a check more then X ways 2. If a waiter spends 10 min at the POS splitting a check, other tables are being ignored and management might not like that. Interestingly enough, a server works for three parties: guest, restaurant, and themselves. Sucks but true. Gotta choose lesser of three evil sometimes.
pjc50 11y ago
Finally a relevant opportunity to mention my employer's software on HN :) http://www.zonal.co.uk/aztec-epos-solutions/ http://www.zonal.co.uk/aztec-epos-solutions/ Not only does it split the bill N ways easily, it can cope with all manner of per-seat bills and shared items.

FussyZeus 11y ago

You must live in a weird place, I've never once had a waiter even react to splitting a check. In fact the majority ask us first (especially when it's multiple couples at a table). A friend of mine says typically when she splits a bill, both payees will assume the other is a crappy tipper/don't want to tip less, so they'll both tip a higher percentile and she'll occasionally get 1.5-2 times the tip money, so when people ask her to split a bill she just hears more money coming. Purely anecdotal, YMMV, etc. etc. EDIT: I'm curious if downvotes are due to people not wanting wait staff to get bigger tips or if it's because wait staff in my area don't gripe about splitting bills? I never expected this comment to cost me karma, but such it is.

ambrice 11y ago
As to why you're getting downvoted, I would assume a lot of people (such as myself) don't agree with your anecdotal evidence that waiters never react badly to splitting a check, unless you "live in a weird place".
- FussyZeus 11y ago
  That might be why I followed that with "purely anecdotal, YMMV, etc. etc."?

bardworx 11y ago

As a former waiter who spent over a decade in the industry, working everything from casual to high dining, this comment irks me at a personal level. These examples are not directed at you but an explanation of how a waiter sees the situation. 1. Some Point of Sale systems have a limit on how to split a check. I physically cannot split a check more then 6 ways and the customer is asking or 7 ways, then what am I suppose to do? Be "nice" and promise the impossible? So now I pissed off a customer who's about to tip me because I cannot reprogram the POS. 2. The more likely scenario is when a table of 7, who just had pre-fix brunch is asking me to split a $70 check 7 ways which takes my time away from my couple who just dropped $70 by themselves. What customers in restaurants don't understand is that tipping might be optional but my time is money. As a customer is tipping on service, I'm also providing service comparable to the tip I receive. Waiters are really good at "guessing" how much a customer will tip and will act on that belief. Disclaimer: I worked with a ton of awful waiters who were straight up rude to good guests. No guest should ever be treated poorly. Ive also served some awful customers: Some of them tipped very, very well because they wanted to be awful. I loved those assholes and always welcomed them with open arms - money's green regardless. Some were just awful and I tried to steer clear of them. Now as an olive branch; all guests should be treated with outmost respect and all people in the service industry should be as well

hsod 11y ago
Argument #1 (the seven ways thing) seems like a red herring, since I would guess it's vanishingly rare compared to splitting 6 or fewer ways. #2 isn't very convincing on it's own. Your inconvenience is not the customer's fault and does not justify being rude to them. Splitting checks is part of the job just like refilling water is part of the job, even if it takes your time away from more profitable tables.
- bardworx 11y ago
  This is a difficult subject to discuss objectively since both (customer and server) experiences are very personal. Argument #1 happens frequently at locations that host larger parties (steak houses, for example) while almost never occurs at local pub/restaurant. I understand your point of view on #2, however, the job is to server food for the section, not a particular table. I understand its taboo to speak honestly about this - people don't want to hear it; A manager doesn't care that you had to split a check when a table walked out; A guest doesn't care if you have a 7 top when they're ordering a $300 bottle of wine. Everyone has particular feelings about this situation and as a server you're juggling all of your tables, expectations, emotions, and different cost/reward scenarios. Another caveat: when a table walks in and says, prior to ordering, "Can we please split the check 7 ways?" - freaking awesome! Now I know that my notes have to be extra neat and I'm going through steps of service being extra careful to place items. Most people ask to split the check at the end when I rushed through the entire order and my pad is a total mess and I'm trying to decipher what happened so everyone is charged correctly.

draw_down 11y ago

It's usually not their choice to make - why would they care? And docking them on the tip for that is extremely tacky IMO.