7 ms·

I feel compelled to write about race issues because I am a person of color. The issues directly impact my life. But I'm afraid because readers might be pissed o

I feel compelled to write about race issues because I am a person of color. The issues directly impact my life. But I'm afraid because readers might be pissed off enough to get me fired. :/

erichmond 11y ago
Sadly, if you live in the states, you are likely correct to feel that way. I haven't had many racial incidents in the tech workplace, but I have had enough to understand that it definitely could be held against you in the long term.
- kelukelugames 11y ago
  I wrote a few sentences about gender equality at my last job for the company blog. Some people didn't like it so they escalated it to the CTO without contacting me. As a result, the editor who approved my piece was super stressed and apologetic. She quit a few months later. I wasn't surprised. They wanted me to add the word "more" to the title of the second point. Which makes sense, but that's literally a one minute conversation. My boss was like "Sorry for going behind your back. I didn't realize you were going to find out." https://www.redfin.com/blog/2014/10/why-i-work-at-redfin-kevin-lu-developer.html https://www.redfin.com/blog/2014/10/why-i-work-at-redfin-kev...
  - delecti 11y ago
    > Sorry for going behind your back. I didn't realize you were going to find out So really "Sorry you found out I went behind your back".
    - kelukelugames 11y ago
      To be fair, I understand where they are coming from. It's an reaction all marginalized groups share. My version is when white authors write about PoC issues. But I voice my complaints by tweeting at them. ;)
puredemo 11y ago
Excuse my ignorance but do Asians "count" as people of color? I thought that usually referred to Latinos and African Americans? I know that university admissions PoC don't include Asians, in fact most admissions standards are stacked against them.
- kelukelugames 11y ago
  Yes, I am a person of color. The dictionary definition of people of color is any non whites. Edit: There is a long explanation of why Asians are sometimes excluded. The short answer is racism against Asians.
  - puredemo 11y ago
    It sounds like you're saying it's fine to be racist against whites, but offensive to do the same thing to your personal "in-group." Little ironic, lol.
    - Analemma_ 11y ago
      You're doing the exact thing that WalterBright complained about above (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10859674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10859674). Of course that is not what the poster meant.
      - kelukelugames 11y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color He thinks I'm racist for quoting wikipedia. I've met people like him at work. Overly sensitive people is exactly why I don't want to write about race issues.
        puredemo 11y ago
        >He thinks I'm racist for quoting wikipedia. I mean, I think you buy into and identify with a concept that is explicitly, by definition anti-white.. Is that not racist? -- >This is exactly why I don't want to write about race issues. Because everyone needs to agree with you about them 100%?
stuxnet79 11y ago
Colored person here as well. I'd advise you to discuss these matters under an assumed name. Discussing them on a public forum (such as a company blog) is generally a bad idea (if you want to keep your job). Of course you can go full militant but you have to understand the risks. Personally, I need to pay the bills right now, but as soon as I accumulate some F* U money, it's on :)
- kelukelugames 11y ago
  I can pay off my mortgage in 5 years. After that, it's on! :)
ddingus 11y ago
And that sucks. We need you to share your experiences. We need to feel your struggles and understand them well enough to identify with them, and really internalize, "what if that were me?" When that happens, most of us respond with empathy and because we understand, support and activism to make it better and have one another's backs. Progress happens, and things get better. I believe in all of that deeply. I've paid hard to stand for it too. More than once. Some of us respond with rage, hate, and all manner of emotions, and that sucks. It's not like any of us actually picks these things, so how does it make any real sense to be held to account for them? (Color, gender, gay, etc...) It is, like you say, a contact sport with very real implications for us all. To me, that contact is good. It helps to understand others and it can help to keep the worst in check for fear of consequences too. But there is a lot of difficulty in that quiet response one just can't quite pin down... fired one day, for example. I'm an ordinary white guy, and I've had this sort of thing happen when I've gone to bat for someone who needed it. Making things better is expensive in this way, and I'm not entirely sure we can avoid it. We may blunt it some, but people remain exposed all the same. I understand your fear. It has a real basis and all of us must weigh these things. At some points in life, maybe we can take the hit. At others, it may cost too much. I don't have answers, other than to say there are a lot of us who get it.
- stuxnet79 11y ago
  Thanks for this. It is indeed very difficult for most people to identify with and internalize the struggles of those stuck in the margins of society. It takes concerted effort and is not something that comes easily to most people. That's why discussions are important.
  - ddingus 11y ago
    Yeah. A lot of people don't want to either. Going there can often lead to questions about the self and character and other things... I went through that. Small town ignorance, married a wonderful woman who some how saw better in me, and a lot of introspection on car rides home to shake it. Doing that hurts and it's scary, but it also rewards one with security and empathy needed to understand just how completely unacceptable bigotry, racism, etc... really are too. The triggers for that so very often happen by another person, a target, sharing.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
cryoshon 11y ago
I also feel compelled to write about race issues. I don't write about them, though-- the issue is too poisoned to even approach if you aren't the correct race. I churn quietly instead.
- erikpukinskis 11y ago
  There is no correct race, you just need to do your homework. Plenty of white people write about race. You just have to have a sound argument, based in actual study of race. If you're just going to regurgitate ancient stereotypes then yeah, people will criticize you. If you are unable to have a conversation about your views with a person of another race you probably haven't done enough homework yet. If you don't want to take the time to do that, that's fine. But don't churn. And don't blame other people. I'm a white male and I feel totally confident expressing my opinions on race and gender, including opinions that go contrary to mainstream feminist and anti-racist positions. You might be surprised to learn that women and people of color are not unified in their beliefs about race and sex. But that's only because I've taken the time to listen very carefully to criticism, to listen particularly carefully and gently when someone is telling me something that seems wrong, and do my own research. It's not just a matter of watching the world go by and having an opinion.
  - stuxnet79 11y ago
    The only response I've read that makes sense. I'm not anti-white people, I'm anti-"white supremacy" and institutional racism. I have plenty of white friends who know what the deal is, that's why I'm friends with them. For the rest, no amount of sophistication or refinement is going to mask your profound ignorance on the topic. This is why there's a lot of avoidance of the topic. Frankly most people don't know what they are talking about. I frequent a forum that's filled with "PoC" and we have a lot of arguments in our ranks too.
outis 11y ago
You're being dishonest here. Your choice of words paints a certain picture, but we all know what kind of people get people fired for their controversial opinions, and they wouldn't go after a self-described poc for talking about race. The example you give further down (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10859834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10859834) shows that you know how it works in practice, which is why I'm saying "dishonest" rather than "confused".
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- kelukelugames 11y ago
  I have no idea what you are trying to say. I don't know what kind of people you mean. I don't know what you think I know what works in practice.

I feel compelled to write about race issues because I am a person of color. The issues directly impact my life. But I'm afraid because readers might be pissed off enough to get me fired. :/

erichmond 11y ago

Sadly, if you live in the states, you are likely correct to feel that way. I haven't had many racial incidents in the tech workplace, but I have had enough to understand that it definitely could be held against you in the long term.

kelukelugames 11y ago
I wrote a few sentences about gender equality at my last job for the company blog. Some people didn't like it so they escalated it to the CTO without contacting me. As a result, the editor who approved my piece was super stressed and apologetic. She quit a few months later. I wasn't surprised. They wanted me to add the word "more" to the title of the second point. Which makes sense, but that's literally a one minute conversation. My boss was like "Sorry for going behind your back. I didn't realize you were going to find out." https://www.redfin.com/blog/2014/10/why-i-work-at-redfin-kevin-lu-developer.html https://www.redfin.com/blog/2014/10/why-i-work-at-redfin-kev...
- delecti 11y ago
  > Sorry for going behind your back. I didn't realize you were going to find out So really "Sorry you found out I went behind your back".
  - kelukelugames 11y ago
    To be fair, I understand where they are coming from. It's an reaction all marginalized groups share. My version is when white authors write about PoC issues. But I voice my complaints by tweeting at them. ;)

puredemo 11y ago

Excuse my ignorance but do Asians "count" as people of color? I thought that usually referred to Latinos and African Americans? I know that university admissions PoC don't include Asians, in fact most admissions standards are stacked against them.

kelukelugames 11y ago
Yes, I am a person of color. The dictionary definition of people of color is any non whites. Edit: There is a long explanation of why Asians are sometimes excluded. The short answer is racism against Asians.
- puredemo 11y ago
  It sounds like you're saying it's fine to be racist against whites, but offensive to do the same thing to your personal "in-group." Little ironic, lol.
  - Analemma_ 11y ago
    You're doing the exact thing that WalterBright complained about above (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10859674 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10859674). Of course that is not what the poster meant.
    - kelukelugames 11y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color He thinks I'm racist for quoting wikipedia. I've met people like him at work. Overly sensitive people is exactly why I don't want to write about race issues.
      - puredemo 11y ago
        >He thinks I'm racist for quoting wikipedia. I mean, I think you buy into and identify with a concept that is explicitly, by definition anti-white.. Is that not racist? -- >This is exactly why I don't want to write about race issues. Because everyone needs to agree with you about them 100%?

stuxnet79 11y ago

Colored person here as well. I'd advise you to discuss these matters under an assumed name. Discussing them on a public forum (such as a company blog) is generally a bad idea (if you want to keep your job). Of course you can go full militant but you have to understand the risks. Personally, I need to pay the bills right now, but as soon as I accumulate some F* U money, it's on :)

kelukelugames 11y ago
I can pay off my mortgage in 5 years. After that, it's on! :)

ddingus 11y ago

And that sucks. We need you to share your experiences. We need to feel your struggles and understand them well enough to identify with them, and really internalize, "what if that were me?" When that happens, most of us respond with empathy and because we understand, support and activism to make it better and have one another's backs. Progress happens, and things get better. I believe in all of that deeply. I've paid hard to stand for it too. More than once. Some of us respond with rage, hate, and all manner of emotions, and that sucks. It's not like any of us actually picks these things, so how does it make any real sense to be held to account for them? (Color, gender, gay, etc...) It is, like you say, a contact sport with very real implications for us all. To me, that contact is good. It helps to understand others and it can help to keep the worst in check for fear of consequences too. But there is a lot of difficulty in that quiet response one just can't quite pin down... fired one day, for example. I'm an ordinary white guy, and I've had this sort of thing happen when I've gone to bat for someone who needed it. Making things better is expensive in this way, and I'm not entirely sure we can avoid it. We may blunt it some, but people remain exposed all the same. I understand your fear. It has a real basis and all of us must weigh these things. At some points in life, maybe we can take the hit. At others, it may cost too much. I don't have answers, other than to say there are a lot of us who get it.

stuxnet79 11y ago
Thanks for this. It is indeed very difficult for most people to identify with and internalize the struggles of those stuck in the margins of society. It takes concerted effort and is not something that comes easily to most people. That's why discussions are important.
- ddingus 11y ago
  Yeah. A lot of people don't want to either. Going there can often lead to questions about the self and character and other things... I went through that. Small town ignorance, married a wonderful woman who some how saw better in me, and a lot of introspection on car rides home to shake it. Doing that hurts and it's scary, but it also rewards one with security and empathy needed to understand just how completely unacceptable bigotry, racism, etc... really are too. The triggers for that so very often happen by another person, a target, sharing.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

cryoshon 11y ago

I also feel compelled to write about race issues. I don't write about them, though-- the issue is too poisoned to even approach if you aren't the correct race. I churn quietly instead.

erikpukinskis 11y ago
There is no correct race, you just need to do your homework. Plenty of white people write about race. You just have to have a sound argument, based in actual study of race. If you're just going to regurgitate ancient stereotypes then yeah, people will criticize you. If you are unable to have a conversation about your views with a person of another race you probably haven't done enough homework yet. If you don't want to take the time to do that, that's fine. But don't churn. And don't blame other people. I'm a white male and I feel totally confident expressing my opinions on race and gender, including opinions that go contrary to mainstream feminist and anti-racist positions. You might be surprised to learn that women and people of color are not unified in their beliefs about race and sex. But that's only because I've taken the time to listen very carefully to criticism, to listen particularly carefully and gently when someone is telling me something that seems wrong, and do my own research. It's not just a matter of watching the world go by and having an opinion.
- stuxnet79 11y ago
  The only response I've read that makes sense. I'm not anti-white people, I'm anti-"white supremacy" and institutional racism. I have plenty of white friends who know what the deal is, that's why I'm friends with them. For the rest, no amount of sophistication or refinement is going to mask your profound ignorance on the topic. This is why there's a lot of avoidance of the topic. Frankly most people don't know what they are talking about. I frequent a forum that's filled with "PoC" and we have a lot of arguments in our ranks too.

outis 11y ago

You're being dishonest here. Your choice of words paints a certain picture, but we all know what kind of people get people fired for their controversial opinions, and they wouldn't go after a self-described poc for talking about race. The example you give further down (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10859834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10859834) shows that you know how it works in practice, which is why I'm saying "dishonest" rather than "confused".

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
kelukelugames 11y ago
I have no idea what you are trying to say. I don't know what kind of people you mean. I don't know what you think I know what works in practice.