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I apologize if the following comes off as harsh, but it comes from experience, not malice. Where can I find people like you who will work for free on the promi

I apologize if the following comes off as harsh, but it comes from experience, not malice. Where can I find people like you who will work for free on the promise of future money dependent on a roll of the die which is funding? Please tell me. I'll take one CTO, 2 senior devs, and 4 junior devs. Here's the deal. I don't know your situation, but you are basically saying that your time is worth $0. That might be true or it might not be. You have to be the one to decide that. Additionally, if the company gets funded, the very first thing that will happen is you will be fired or otherwise relieved of your position and they will hire an experienced CTO who will be paid a lot of money. This is the smart money move for them and a pat on the back for a job well done is all you will be likely to get. By that time, you will have no solid programming experience, having played spreadsheet warrior for a year or two, and being at least one level abstracted away from the real work through which you would earn your bread once you leave this losing lottery ticket. Finally, you have no experience. You might not even conceive of what this role requires. You are being asked to be a CTO during an internship. This is a glorious chance to fail. How strong are you emotionally, to face a humiliating failure? Your decisions will be picked apart and your current lack of experience will be laid bare for everyone to witness.

S4M 11y ago
I concur with that advice, it seems that the startup founders are looking for a naive young guy to work for free before getting some funding. If you (OP) are really interested in that position and trust the founders (I wouldn't, but I haven't met them in person, so who knows?), then you should become a co-founder and ask for significant amount of equity in the company (10% at least).
keefe 11y ago
another pitfall is that they are probably wagering that submitter has little understanding of stock dilution and they can inflate the upside while getting him to get things started for free and potentially replace him after funding begins
partisan 11y ago
Having seen the OP's personal site, I may have been a bit harsh. He could well have the tools to succeed and if he accepts this position for no pay then his employers are getting an absolute bargain. Shame on them if screw him over as he seems like the kind of person you really would want on your team. I wish OP good luck and success.
FireBeyond 11y ago
"Additionally, if the company gets funded, the very first thing that will happen is you will be fired or otherwise relieved of your position and they will hire an experienced CTO who will be paid a lot of money. This is the smart money move for them and a pat on the back for a job well done is all you will be likely to get." If that was the situation (and I agree, potentially likely) - but yet still an option for him, I would have him attempt to write in to the contract that on funding, he would be back paid $x, up to a full amount or some portion thereof that he would have earned...
- HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
  No. I try not to be so absolute online, but, No. The contract can be ignored. How's he going to fight it? He's been working for free and he's broke. He has more important things to worry about like eating. So a crappy lawyer takes his case on a 30% contingency. It's still an uphill road until he might somehow get something. Never work for free.
  - NumberCruncher 11y ago
    My last interns had a salary of 13€/hr gross (I´m based in Munich). Working 20 hrs a week is enough to pay the rent and buy beer. In the remaining 20 hrs you could still be the unpaid CTO/CFO/CEO of any startup.
    - relkor 11y ago
      Correction: 80 hrs/wk available for the unpaid CTO. You are thinking like an employee would by speaking of a 40 hour work week. To the OP: choose the startup if it is your life, your mission, and you can directly build value. If you do not believe in the value-proposition, then find something else. There are plenty of startups, plenty of growing companies all over the planet. Find one solving a problem you personally care about that also has a requisite amount of upside for your personal risk preference.
    - thecupisblue 11y ago
      Shit, can I intern remotely for you?

S4M 11y ago

I concur with that advice, it seems that the startup founders are looking for a naive young guy to work for free before getting some funding. If you (OP) are really interested in that position and trust the founders (I wouldn't, but I haven't met them in person, so who knows?), then you should become a co-founder and ask for significant amount of equity in the company (10% at least).

keefe 11y ago

another pitfall is that they are probably wagering that submitter has little understanding of stock dilution and they can inflate the upside while getting him to get things started for free and potentially replace him after funding begins

partisan 11y ago

Having seen the OP's personal site, I may have been a bit harsh. He could well have the tools to succeed and if he accepts this position for no pay then his employers are getting an absolute bargain. Shame on them if screw him over as he seems like the kind of person you really would want on your team. I wish OP good luck and success.

FireBeyond 11y ago

"Additionally, if the company gets funded, the very first thing that will happen is you will be fired or otherwise relieved of your position and they will hire an experienced CTO who will be paid a lot of money. This is the smart money move for them and a pat on the back for a job well done is all you will be likely to get." If that was the situation (and I agree, potentially likely) - but yet still an option for him, I would have him attempt to write in to the contract that on funding, he would be back paid $x, up to a full amount or some portion thereof that he would have earned...

HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
No. I try not to be so absolute online, but, No. The contract can be ignored. How's he going to fight it? He's been working for free and he's broke. He has more important things to worry about like eating. So a crappy lawyer takes his case on a 30% contingency. It's still an uphill road until he might somehow get something. Never work for free.
- NumberCruncher 11y ago
  My last interns had a salary of 13€/hr gross (I´m based in Munich). Working 20 hrs a week is enough to pay the rent and buy beer. In the remaining 20 hrs you could still be the unpaid CTO/CFO/CEO of any startup.
  - relkor 11y ago
    Correction: 80 hrs/wk available for the unpaid CTO. You are thinking like an employee would by speaking of a 40 hour work week. To the OP: choose the startup if it is your life, your mission, and you can directly build value. If you do not believe in the value-proposition, then find something else. There are plenty of startups, plenty of growing companies all over the planet. Find one solving a problem you personally care about that also has a requisite amount of upside for your personal risk preference.
  - thecupisblue 11y ago
    Shit, can I intern remotely for you?