5 ms·

When I had my first daughter, unplanned, when I was 23, I didn't quite understand the gravity of what had happened. I'm only 36. I'm in the best shape of my l

by moosey 11y ago

When I had my first daughter, unplanned, when I was 23, I didn't quite understand the gravity of what had happened. I'm only 36. I'm in the best shape of my life (although RA is constantly trying to steal that away) and my daughter is excelling at a ton of activities. It's a ton of fun to watch her grow. We have recently adopted a newborn, and I'm looking forward to starting the experience again while multitasking a much older child at the same time. I have a work from home job with a low stress company, doing complicated, but not overwhelming or ground breaking, work. I live in a small city with a decent cost of living. I get paid decently... One of the big three offered me a significant amount more than what I am making now, and felt comfortable rejecting the offer. My goals have been simplified down to making sure that I do right by my children. Watching them succeed is #1. Me not being there because I'm trying to run a business or getting overworked by one of the big three is not going to do her any favors. I make more than enough to pay for lessons for whatever she wants to do, and still be able to make sure my wife and I can retire. I would rather sit down with her and discuss life and its myriad positives and negatives than chase money. Or play video games with her, or an instrument, or make sure I make her parent teacher conference. It took a bit of meditation to actually convince myself that the money and recognition pipe dream just didn't have the same value as her success, and it really helped me understand my father who was a welder, putting so much focus into my siblings to try to make sure we succeed -- why he sold his business and took a job where he would have a steady income in exchange for the joy he took working long hours, but having complete control over his work. And he did take joy in it, I totally get it. I now understand the sacrifice. When he sees his children attaining success, he is overjoyed. My children are my monument. Their grand adventure is mine.

vivekian2 11y ago
Well said. Nice to see so many folks at HN here realizing this and not falling for the fluff.
dunkelheit 11y ago
I respect your choice but I find the arguments behind it somewhat logically inconsistent. How do you define "success" for your children? Presumably if you feel that you have made the right choice their goals should be similar to yours (not money and recognition but success of their children). At which point it gets rather circular. And if you want them to have grand adventure in their lives why not have it yourself first?
- saidajigumi 11y ago
  Because 'grand adventure' has a much broader definition than a high salary and career overwork.
- moosey 11y ago
  I will try to give them the knowledge and tools necessary to succeed. Doing so is time consuming and expensive. The actual tools necessary for success (IMHO), like the arts, are not given any priority in our schools. It could be that they follow the same path I did. It could be that they become musicians or engineers or whatever. It doesn't matter as long as I supply what is necessary for them to take whatever path they might want to. Success is happiness. I want their adventure to be easier than mine, with more tools, mentally and otherwise, than I had. I have that opportunity and it's awesome. I don't think that I necessarily want to defend my parenting experience as something for everyone, but it's definitely the primary source of joy in my life, for all the difficulties it brings. Oddly enough, it was the movie Click that really showed me the way. How weird is it that it would be an Adam Sandler movie that would be a primary driver in my life philosophy?
erikpukinskis 11y ago
> My goals have been simplified down to making sure that I do right by my children You know, I don't have kids and I'm not you, so I truly have no opinion about that. It's your call and I'm sure you've made it carefully and are doing what's right for you and your life. However, I just want to say that when this attitude is repeated over and over, with a whole population of people using their children as their contribution to society, and then the children make the grandchildren their contribution to society, and it repeats generation after generation, you can end up with essentially a bunch of families who are taking care of themselves, and sort of punting social responsibility down the line perpetually to later generations. When I look out at the world I see a lot of people trying to make sure their kids are better off than they were... which is great. It's like bubbles in a glass of water that are all slowly rising. But it also seems like with everyone looking upward, we stop noticing that down below there are people whose bubbles are sinking down. Or maybe you're actually closer to that reality and you're fighting like hell not to fall below that line. And again, I would never question that choice. But as a group what it adds up to is that there are families that are just trapped below that line. And we can focus on helping our kids rise, and they can help our grandkids rise, but at some point I think as a group we need to look beyond our families and realize that there are kids—and grown ups–out there who aren't our blood but are just as deserving of our support. And I do see people make that choice, to really try to support someone beyond their immediate family, and it's amazing. But sometimes I worry that the attitude you describe is a little too easily accepted.
- moosey 11y ago
  I think it's an opinion that is easily stated, but not easily done. It's easy to have kids and say they are your pride and joy, but not take it seriously. It's a very serious burden IF you are serious about raising kids properly. It requires study for each area of life that they enter, careful attention to their needs while trying to develop independence. It's very hard and utterly horrifying. Seeing other parents yell at teachers when their students are falling behind represents to me how dire the situation is, and I see that too often, and I read about it too often. I see it in my own extended family, where a history of neglect and lack of discipline have produced people that are essentially useless in society. But they all still say that their children are their pride and joy. I don't believe they know what it means to take parenting seriously. Yes, I agree with you, it's very easy to be a hypocrite about this statement. There exists a serious moral bankruptcy in many areas of modern US society that allow people to be hypocrites, to take what they say at face value and just accept it (TV Evangelistic preachers with private jets???). I like to believe I am taking the job seriously. Having a baby is basically 'Congratulations, you had sex'. Raising a child ranges from tossing a baby in a dumpster to making sure that they are the temporal and financial focus in your lives, and probably further.

by moosey 11y ago

vivekian2 11y ago

Well said. Nice to see so many folks at HN here realizing this and not falling for the fluff.

dunkelheit 11y ago

I respect your choice but I find the arguments behind it somewhat logically inconsistent. How do you define "success" for your children? Presumably if you feel that you have made the right choice their goals should be similar to yours (not money and recognition but success of their children). At which point it gets rather circular. And if you want them to have grand adventure in their lives why not have it yourself first?

saidajigumi 11y ago
Because 'grand adventure' has a much broader definition than a high salary and career overwork.
moosey 11y ago
I will try to give them the knowledge and tools necessary to succeed. Doing so is time consuming and expensive. The actual tools necessary for success (IMHO), like the arts, are not given any priority in our schools. It could be that they follow the same path I did. It could be that they become musicians or engineers or whatever. It doesn't matter as long as I supply what is necessary for them to take whatever path they might want to. Success is happiness. I want their adventure to be easier than mine, with more tools, mentally and otherwise, than I had. I have that opportunity and it's awesome. I don't think that I necessarily want to defend my parenting experience as something for everyone, but it's definitely the primary source of joy in my life, for all the difficulties it brings. Oddly enough, it was the movie Click that really showed me the way. How weird is it that it would be an Adam Sandler movie that would be a primary driver in my life philosophy?

erikpukinskis 11y ago

> My goals have been simplified down to making sure that I do right by my children You know, I don't have kids and I'm not you, so I truly have no opinion about that. It's your call and I'm sure you've made it carefully and are doing what's right for you and your life. However, I just want to say that when this attitude is repeated over and over, with a whole population of people using their children as their contribution to society, and then the children make the grandchildren their contribution to society, and it repeats generation after generation, you can end up with essentially a bunch of families who are taking care of themselves, and sort of punting social responsibility down the line perpetually to later generations. When I look out at the world I see a lot of people trying to make sure their kids are better off than they were... which is great. It's like bubbles in a glass of water that are all slowly rising. But it also seems like with everyone looking upward, we stop noticing that down below there are people whose bubbles are sinking down. Or maybe you're actually closer to that reality and you're fighting like hell not to fall below that line. And again, I would never question that choice. But as a group what it adds up to is that there are families that are just trapped below that line. And we can focus on helping our kids rise, and they can help our grandkids rise, but at some point I think as a group we need to look beyond our families and realize that there are kids—and grown ups–out there who aren't our blood but are just as deserving of our support. And I do see people make that choice, to really try to support someone beyond their immediate family, and it's amazing. But sometimes I worry that the attitude you describe is a little too easily accepted.

moosey 11y ago
I think it's an opinion that is easily stated, but not easily done. It's easy to have kids and say they are your pride and joy, but not take it seriously. It's a very serious burden IF you are serious about raising kids properly. It requires study for each area of life that they enter, careful attention to their needs while trying to develop independence. It's very hard and utterly horrifying. Seeing other parents yell at teachers when their students are falling behind represents to me how dire the situation is, and I see that too often, and I read about it too often. I see it in my own extended family, where a history of neglect and lack of discipline have produced people that are essentially useless in society. But they all still say that their children are their pride and joy. I don't believe they know what it means to take parenting seriously. Yes, I agree with you, it's very easy to be a hypocrite about this statement. There exists a serious moral bankruptcy in many areas of modern US society that allow people to be hypocrites, to take what they say at face value and just accept it (TV Evangelistic preachers with private jets???). I like to believe I am taking the job seriously. Having a baby is basically 'Congratulations, you had sex'. Raising a child ranges from tossing a baby in a dumpster to making sure that they are the temporal and financial focus in your lives, and probably further.