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> this criticism is very unfair, very hurtful, and mostly bullshit. You don't have to believe me - but you now have a second data point for your consideration.
by manish_gill 11y ago
> this criticism is very unfair, very hurtful, and mostly bullshit. You don't have to believe me - but you now have a second data point for your consideration.
No I do not. All you've provided me is a point of view without anything resembling rational reasoning. I believe that trains can fly. You don't have to believe me, but now you have another data point for your consideration.
> this kind of criticism is impossible to defend against.
See my initial statement. All you have to do is point flaws in the above link.
> To prove that it's mostly bullshit would take me literally writing a book - in which I would surely make mistakes,
If you're not confident in your ability to assess and refute an argument, then why bother making it?
> that then could be used to discredit it entirely in a single article.
Nobody is saying the article above is perfectly written, or that the critique is 100% on point, but that does not mean the broad point he makes has no merit. Same would be true for the hypothetical book you write.
> When people read a powerful criticism "debunking" things about a group they vaguely know, the default for most is to agree with the criticism. For some reason it's natural to humans.
Do you have any basis on which you're making that claim? No, because if you did, you'd provide that.
> All I want now is to make people stop for at least a moment, consider that the article may be unfair, and to not make judgments before double-checking the claims.
But WHY? WHY? You've, objectively, given me ZERO reason besides "it's malicious and people are biased when reading debunking articles". You've clearly refused to engage in the content. You haven't even quoted a single line and proved that it's false. Whereas the article in question is an in-depth exploration of the community of people, their beliefs, the personalities involved, what they believe, their education background and many more things. What have you done? Nada.
I can go on and tear down your whole reply, but I'll stop here.I come off with the impression that you're taking this personally and therefore, as a natural response, you're defending it, which is fine. I'm not trying to be a dick, but perhaps you should work on your argumentation and logic skills before trying to defend or take any side.
- TeMPOraL 11y agoYou're reading me very uncharitably. I believe that debunking this article properly, point-by-point and with overwhelming evidence, will take stupidly big amounts of time and is almost an impossible task - since no matter what I say, people with the same approach as the author can find something else to twist into criticism. On the other hand, Googling quotes he uses and checking them with source material is easy and provides ample proof that the article is dishonest. It's something a reader can do, and I want to clearly state that in this case, they absolutely should. RodericDay asked about three concrete examples taken from the article; each of them is a perfect example how utterly nonsense this article is. I provided relevant source material and explained the real meaning of quotes Bond uses when taken in context of said source material. So did other HNers. Check out the responses in the parallel subthreads. I could do it for every one of his sentences but frankly, I feel it's a waste of time. I think I've proven enough that this is not an honest criticism, and fact-checking the rest of that article shall be the task for the reader, who is now properly warned.