3 ms·

But I think people understand the limits of a phone that means it might have to be closed (after all, phones were closed for 15 years before we started seeing "

by tlack 17y ago

But I think people understand the limits of a phone that means it might have to be closed (after all, phones were closed for 15 years before we started seeing "open" ones), and people saw the crazy copyright battles that went on that lead to a big restriction in music copying freedom. On the other hand, we've had programmable computers in our homes for 30 years.. we aren't ready to give that up.

dschobel 17y ago
I suppose, but from a Stallman-esque strictly engineering point of view, it's all just software running on hardware and the fact that you call one with a 4" display a phone makes everyone accept it being closed but a 10" display crosses the boundary into PC territory and now it's outrageous to be closed. It strikes me as an arbitrary distinction to make.
ryandvm 17y ago
Or maybe we are. That's what Jobs/Apple are betting. Apple thinks that people have tired of dealing with anti-virus and task managers and package installers and folders and system updates. Perhaps they're right, there is definitely a segment of the market that just wants a web browser and some rich media. They don't care about multi-tasking or customization. If the iPad takes off, you can bet that locked down versions of OSX won't be far behind. Google is headed in a similar direction with ChromeOS. Apple's vision: "We'll give you an awesome experience, but you're going to pay us a little bit at a time for all of it." Google's vision: "We'll give you an awesome experience for free, but you're going to tell us everything about you."
- adamc 17y ago
  I find myself in the uncomfortable position of preferring Microsoft's vision.
  - DannoHung 17y ago
    "We'll give you a shitty experience and if we become popular, then you don't get any choice on top of that!"
  - ericd 17y ago
    There's always Linux...
  - tomjen2 17y ago
    I can't say that I necessary disagree, but the thought that my future freedom depend upon Microsoft rubs me the wrong way. But at least I will now have a reason to join the evil empire.
dschobel 17y ago
I agree, and I'm not even trying to broach the politics of it being a closed system. I'm just wondering why lots of very tech savvy people have never minded their ipods, cellphones, gaming consoles, etc, etc, etc being closed. Maybe we should have been protesting those all along? Otherwise how do you reconcile accepting all of those but rejecting this device?
- orangecat 17y ago
  Opportunity cost. The iPhone, and the iPad to an even greater extent, have lots of potential that can't be (easily/legally) utilized because of Apple's control. That's not true of earlier phones, which were too technically limited to do a whole lot even if they were open. It's also not true of consoles which are just locked down PCs; there's not much you could do with a hacked Xbox that you couldn't also do with a Mac mini.
- tlack 17y ago
  I can only speak for myself, but I rarely want to change the way I work with my phone (well, more so lately, but that's a separate Blackberry rant ;) ), and I wouldn't ever want to change the way my mp3 player would work if I had one. But I almost always want to change the way my computer works, since I interact with it in such a rich way and it provides me all of my money. I want that flexibility to hone my tools, but I don't want the flexibility to hone all of my tools..

by tlack 17y ago

dschobel 17y ago

I suppose, but from a Stallman-esque strictly engineering point of view, it's all just software running on hardware and the fact that you call one with a 4" display a phone makes everyone accept it being closed but a 10" display crosses the boundary into PC territory and now it's outrageous to be closed. It strikes me as an arbitrary distinction to make.

ryandvm 17y ago

Or maybe we are. That's what Jobs/Apple are betting. Apple thinks that people have tired of dealing with anti-virus and task managers and package installers and folders and system updates. Perhaps they're right, there is definitely a segment of the market that just wants a web browser and some rich media. They don't care about multi-tasking or customization. If the iPad takes off, you can bet that locked down versions of OSX won't be far behind. Google is headed in a similar direction with ChromeOS. Apple's vision: "We'll give you an awesome experience, but you're going to pay us a little bit at a time for all of it." Google's vision: "We'll give you an awesome experience for free, but you're going to tell us everything about you."

adamc 17y ago
I find myself in the uncomfortable position of preferring Microsoft's vision.
- DannoHung 17y ago
  "We'll give you a shitty experience and if we become popular, then you don't get any choice on top of that!"
- ericd 17y ago
  There's always Linux...
- tomjen2 17y ago
  I can't say that I necessary disagree, but the thought that my future freedom depend upon Microsoft rubs me the wrong way. But at least I will now have a reason to join the evil empire.

dschobel 17y ago

I agree, and I'm not even trying to broach the politics of it being a closed system. I'm just wondering why lots of very tech savvy people have never minded their ipods, cellphones, gaming consoles, etc, etc, etc being closed. Maybe we should have been protesting those all along? Otherwise how do you reconcile accepting all of those but rejecting this device?

orangecat 17y ago
Opportunity cost. The iPhone, and the iPad to an even greater extent, have lots of potential that can't be (easily/legally) utilized because of Apple's control. That's not true of earlier phones, which were too technically limited to do a whole lot even if they were open. It's also not true of consoles which are just locked down PCs; there's not much you could do with a hacked Xbox that you couldn't also do with a Mac mini.
tlack 17y ago
I can only speak for myself, but I rarely want to change the way I work with my phone (well, more so lately, but that's a separate Blackberry rant ;) ), and I wouldn't ever want to change the way my mp3 player would work if I had one. But I almost always want to change the way my computer works, since I interact with it in such a rich way and it provides me all of my money. I want that flexibility to hone my tools, but I don't want the flexibility to hone all of my tools..