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I can give you some examples for what can be described as micro-aggression (even if SJWs are totally abusing this term and take away any legitimacy when claimin

by justusw 11y ago

I can give you some examples for what can be described as micro-aggression (even if SJWs are totally abusing this term and take away any legitimacy when claiming to be a victim of it) Keep in mind that either of these things happen to me on a daily basis. 1) I speak JLPT ~N2 level with almost no accent, but get handed the English menu in a restaurant in Tokyo. 2) I get complimented for being able to eat various Japanese things (natto, umeboshi) or being able to handle chopsticks. 3) I get compliments for being able to read Kanji after talking to someone for the past few hours. How do they think I learned the language? With romaji? 4) Speaking to staff in Japanese, staff answers to my Japanese friends instead of speaking with me. The last three ones are almost symptomatic for 日本人論, where it is common to think that certain Japanese cultural habits or attributes cannot be mastered or understood by outsiders, thus it is necessary to point them out or try to compensate for them. Some of these attributes are reasoned to exist because of biological differences (google Japanese Brain), others because of the 'rich' cultural heritage of Japan that was never tainted by other countries (as if China and Korea are not close to Japan...). Don't take this as me being unhappy to be in Japan. I just wish that people were a bit more self-aware around here. The problem is just that there is not the necessary vocabulary around to address these problems. It's not as if 人種差別 is a popular subject.

rawTruthHurts 11y ago
Sounds like the difference between somebody who has been visiting Japan for some weeks vs somebody who has been living there for some years
rangibaby 11y ago
1. I get that a lot too. At least they're trying to be helpful; from their perspective it would be embarrassing if they gave someone obviously foreign the Japanese menu. Most people's exposure to westerners here starts and ends with English teachers, so I would forgive them for this one. for 2 and 3, I think it is because they are actually surprised; there are a lot of (Japanese) people who don't like natto or umeboshi either, and kanji is something they spend hours per week studying for 10 years to be literate in. 4 is a hard one. They assume that a foreigner obviously can't speak Japanese. It can be super annoying.
tomp 11y ago
> even if SJWs are totally abusing this term The same way as you're abusing it. Maybe they're genuinely happy and proud that you can do it, or are just trying to make you feel better and help you however they can? Normal people call this "being nice" or "compliments".
- ido 11y ago
  Or maybe neither is abusing it? The OP is as dismissive to other people's complaints as you are to his. IMO both are examples of micro-aggressions, regardless of intention.
  - Albioni 11y ago
    Hi ido! Maybe this comment is a little bit out from this topic, but I saw from an earlier topic where u commented about the self-employed thing for a programmer in Vienna. I'm expecting to move soon in Vienna so can you tell me some start tips about self-employed as programmer? I didn't see any e-mail or other contact so this was the only way to contact you. Please forgive me.
jason_tko 11y ago
I've lived in Japan for 14 years, and I'm doing a startup here. In my experience, if you stay in Japan for more than a year, you go through several phases. The first phase is confusion. Why am I being treated differently, even though I'm doing and saying the same things as another Japanese person. The second phase that quickly follows is anger. This is bullshit! I know my accent and pronunciation is correct! Why are they saying they don't understand me! WTF! The third is dull acceptance. You're not going to change Japan. They're not like this because they're bad people. They're just inexperienced with foreigners and foreign things, and they're overcompensating and trying to be nice in the way they think is nice. The final stage is fun. This is the best stage. You understand all the social patterns and why everything is happening, so you just relax and start enjoying it. When you go into a restaurant and order in Japanese and the waiters response is "I can't speak English! Sorry!" you respond in Japanese "Oh, I'm terribly sorry. Is there anyone here who speaks Japanese?" This often (not always) has the interesting effect of changing the "foreigners cannot speak or understand Japanese" mindset, if only for a moment. Sounds like you're in between stages two and three. It gets better. To quickly respond to your list: 1) It's your face. It's nothing personal. They're just trying to be accommodating. 2) My typical response is "I've been using chopsticks since I've been four, since we used to order Chinese takeout. So complimenting me on my chopstick skills feels the same as me complimenting you on your deft fork techniques." This may result in enlightening your Japanese friends as to why it's challenging to be overly grateful for their well-intended compliment. 3) Kanji is hard. They're just impressed that you can read it, since they spent years as kids studying and repeating kanji over and over again. Having said that, my typical response here is "Actually, I think English is much, much harder than Japanese. Sure Japanese is difficult, but it's logical. English is full of exceptions, weird spellings, inconsistent grammar, because it's a mix of languages. If I wasn't born a native speaker, I can't imagine how I'd learn English from scratch." 4) Yep - you're definitely not alone. It can be hard to avoid feeling a bit slighted here. If you haven't seen this already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80 I gently correct people here. "Excuse me - since I'm ordering, could you please look at me?" By the way, thinking of these things as "micro-aggressions" is a terrible way to think. They're not being aggressive. They're often just not very familiar with foreign people, and they're doing their best to be accommodating. Once you get to stage four, this becomes a lot easier. Good luck, and don't forget to swing by the Hacker News Tokyo Meetups if you're in Tokyo - https://hntokyo.doorkeeper.jp/ https://hntokyo.doorkeeper.jp/ - we're just about to announce another one.

by justusw 11y ago

rawTruthHurts 11y ago

Sounds like the difference between somebody who has been visiting Japan for some weeks vs somebody who has been living there for some years

rangibaby 11y ago

1. I get that a lot too. At least they're trying to be helpful; from their perspective it would be embarrassing if they gave someone obviously foreign the Japanese menu. Most people's exposure to westerners here starts and ends with English teachers, so I would forgive them for this one. for 2 and 3, I think it is because they are actually surprised; there are a lot of (Japanese) people who don't like natto or umeboshi either, and kanji is something they spend hours per week studying for 10 years to be literate in. 4 is a hard one. They assume that a foreigner obviously can't speak Japanese. It can be super annoying.

tomp 11y ago

> even if SJWs are totally abusing this term The same way as you're abusing it. Maybe they're genuinely happy and proud that you can do it, or are just trying to make you feel better and help you however they can? Normal people call this "being nice" or "compliments".

ido 11y ago
Or maybe neither is abusing it? The OP is as dismissive to other people's complaints as you are to his. IMO both are examples of micro-aggressions, regardless of intention.
- Albioni 11y ago
  Hi ido! Maybe this comment is a little bit out from this topic, but I saw from an earlier topic where u commented about the self-employed thing for a programmer in Vienna. I'm expecting to move soon in Vienna so can you tell me some start tips about self-employed as programmer? I didn't see any e-mail or other contact so this was the only way to contact you. Please forgive me.

jason_tko 11y ago

I've lived in Japan for 14 years, and I'm doing a startup here. In my experience, if you stay in Japan for more than a year, you go through several phases. The first phase is confusion. Why am I being treated differently, even though I'm doing and saying the same things as another Japanese person. The second phase that quickly follows is anger. This is bullshit! I know my accent and pronunciation is correct! Why are they saying they don't understand me! WTF! The third is dull acceptance. You're not going to change Japan. They're not like this because they're bad people. They're just inexperienced with foreigners and foreign things, and they're overcompensating and trying to be nice in the way they think is nice. The final stage is fun. This is the best stage. You understand all the social patterns and why everything is happening, so you just relax and start enjoying it. When you go into a restaurant and order in Japanese and the waiters response is "I can't speak English! Sorry!" you respond in Japanese "Oh, I'm terribly sorry. Is there anyone here who speaks Japanese?" This often (not always) has the interesting effect of changing the "foreigners cannot speak or understand Japanese" mindset, if only for a moment. Sounds like you're in between stages two and three. It gets better. To quickly respond to your list: 1) It's your face. It's nothing personal. They're just trying to be accommodating. 2) My typical response is "I've been using chopsticks since I've been four, since we used to order Chinese takeout. So complimenting me on my chopstick skills feels the same as me complimenting you on your deft fork techniques." This may result in enlightening your Japanese friends as to why it's challenging to be overly grateful for their well-intended compliment. 3) Kanji is hard. They're just impressed that you can read it, since they spent years as kids studying and repeating kanji over and over again. Having said that, my typical response here is "Actually, I think English is much, much harder than Japanese. Sure Japanese is difficult, but it's logical. English is full of exceptions, weird spellings, inconsistent grammar, because it's a mix of languages. If I wasn't born a native speaker, I can't imagine how I'd learn English from scratch." 4) Yep - you're definitely not alone. It can be hard to avoid feeling a bit slighted here. If you haven't seen this already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80 I gently correct people here. "Excuse me - since I'm ordering, could you please look at me?" By the way, thinking of these things as "micro-aggressions" is a terrible way to think. They're not being aggressive. They're often just not very familiar with foreign people, and they're doing their best to be accommodating. Once you get to stage four, this becomes a lot easier. Good luck, and don't forget to swing by the Hacker News Tokyo Meetups if you're in Tokyo - https://hntokyo.doorkeeper.jp/ https://hntokyo.doorkeeper.jp/ - we're just about to announce another one.