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Doctors (as a profession) have a professional regulatory board and are educated on the ethical proceedings, but doctors (as an individual) can be just as corrup

Doctors (as a profession) have a professional regulatory board and are educated on the ethical proceedings, but doctors (as an individual) can be just as corrupt as anyone else. The difference is accountability within the profession. If a doctor starts doling out tons of prescription opiates, an auditing system is in place (Many levels in fact - either within the state, nationally via the DEA, by someone arrested who will rat the doctor out in exchange for lenient terms, or by a pharmacist who has seen one too many "Oxycodone 30 take as needed" pass through his shop.) Programmers (as individuals) can't be ethically audited, but what we can do is regulate the data which is allowed to be collected. You regulate it like any other industry. Sigma-Aldrich is a corporate company that sells pharmaceutical grade precusors. I was dating a girl who was doing a post-doc in o-chem, in her office waiting to finish up something, and flipped through their catalog. I saw a precursor that was heavily flagged by the DEA which could be used to synthesize massive amounts of a recreational drug. Curious, I asked her the procedure for procurement, and she delineated it. In short, she could get it with a sign-off from the PI and a few other things fairly easily [she would never do that, she's far too ethical - but her PI was famous enough that a request on his letterhead with "Veritas" on it would have been enough] but there's a chain of custody and auditing system in that just like there is with doctors who are issued DEA numbers. If I call up S-A and ask for the same chemical not only would I be laughed off the phone, but they'd likely submit my information to the DEA to flag me for further investigation. What am I getting at? You can't regulate people, but you can regulate systems. If that precursor was ordered and that drug happened to pop-up, the DEA could easily call up any of the suppliers of those precursors and figure out when it was dispensed fairly easily. We need to regulate any institution that collects data in the same way. When it's at a point where the institution is large enough to collect information at a level like that, issue compliance terms. In the same way publicly traded companies have to release financial information to the SEC and comply with numerous reporting terms (look at EDGAR to see how extensive it is), open up another branch of the government that is in charge of regulating the companies that collect data. That way, your engineer with loosely-defined morals who is capable of doing whatever will be prosecuted just like amoral doctors.

puppetmaster3 11y ago
This web site is for you, it insulting to programmers, calling them hacks. ( http://acm.org/about-acm/acm-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct http://acm.org/about-acm/acm-code-of-ethics-and-professional... )
chongli 11y ago
Very informative reply, thanks! How do we regulate data-collecting institutions internationally? Look at the EU's Data Protection Directive[0]. As extensive as it is, it's struggling in the wake of the failure of the Safe Harbour Decision[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Directive [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Safe_Harbor_Privacy_Principles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Safe_Harbor_Priv...
- iheartmemcache 11y ago
  I'm not informed enough in law, much less international law w/r/t intangible assets [and, maybe more importantly, the political infrastructure surrounding them] to make an informed response to that but I'll try just based on my (limited) historical knowledge. (This is a pundit response, not an informed one.) Even if we constrained you request to simply a domestic domain, it'd be challenging because of the corporate interests who'd actively fight against it. Google et al would stomp on any bill that even remotely infringes upon their ability to aggregate data, as targeted ads are (or were as of circa 2011, when I last bothered to look a cash-flow report of their) ~95% of their revenue. Magically, should a bill/resolution be introduced to the floor and not be stomped on immediately, enforcing it internationally would be about as difficult as say, enforcing international oil embargoes or a ruling by the ICC (i.e., nearly impossible - you don't see any proceedings against Cheney or Rumsfeld for war-crimes within the Hague, now do you?). Domestically, however, the US has (or had, historically from, say, 1930 until the mid 90s) the economic/political influence to effectively enforce their agendas fairly effectively. The new US gov't entity formed would have to have the intent to limit data collection then exhibit the willingness to penalize those institutions for violating those data collection policies (e.g. similar to an FDA fine issued for a multi-national drug company who has a presence within the US). Again, too many financial interests opposed to see this happening, but the refusal to adhere to the legislation would mean (in theory) loss of US business, which would be catastrophic for most industries. HackerNews user:grellas (or was, I haven't seen him post in a couple years now) is an attorney specializing in tech affairs who'd be able to make a better response, but from a strictly political POV, even domestic legislation limiting data collection would never occur.

puppetmaster3 11y ago

This web site is for you, it insulting to programmers, calling them hacks. ( http://acm.org/about-acm/acm-code-of-ethics-and-professional-conduct http://acm.org/about-acm/acm-code-of-ethics-and-professional... )

chongli 11y ago

Very informative reply, thanks! How do we regulate data-collecting institutions internationally? Look at the EU's Data Protection Directive[0]. As extensive as it is, it's struggling in the wake of the failure of the Safe Harbour Decision[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Directive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Directive [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Safe_Harbor_Privacy_Principles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Safe_Harbor_Priv...

iheartmemcache 11y ago
I'm not informed enough in law, much less international law w/r/t intangible assets [and, maybe more importantly, the political infrastructure surrounding them] to make an informed response to that but I'll try just based on my (limited) historical knowledge. (This is a pundit response, not an informed one.) Even if we constrained you request to simply a domestic domain, it'd be challenging because of the corporate interests who'd actively fight against it. Google et al would stomp on any bill that even remotely infringes upon their ability to aggregate data, as targeted ads are (or were as of circa 2011, when I last bothered to look a cash-flow report of their) ~95% of their revenue. Magically, should a bill/resolution be introduced to the floor and not be stomped on immediately, enforcing it internationally would be about as difficult as say, enforcing international oil embargoes or a ruling by the ICC (i.e., nearly impossible - you don't see any proceedings against Cheney or Rumsfeld for war-crimes within the Hague, now do you?). Domestically, however, the US has (or had, historically from, say, 1930 until the mid 90s) the economic/political influence to effectively enforce their agendas fairly effectively. The new US gov't entity formed would have to have the intent to limit data collection then exhibit the willingness to penalize those institutions for violating those data collection policies (e.g. similar to an FDA fine issued for a multi-national drug company who has a presence within the US). Again, too many financial interests opposed to see this happening, but the refusal to adhere to the legislation would mean (in theory) loss of US business, which would be catastrophic for most industries. HackerNews user:grellas (or was, I haven't seen him post in a couple years now) is an attorney specializing in tech affairs who'd be able to make a better response, but from a strictly political POV, even domestic legislation limiting data collection would never occur.