5 ms·

I'm wondering why doesn't Google ditch Java entirely and create something like XobotOS[1]. I know it wouldn't be a popular move but at least the devs will get a

by po1nter 11y ago

I'm wondering why doesn't Google ditch Java entirely and create something like XobotOS[1]. I know it wouldn't be a popular move but at least the devs will get a decent language to use (C#) and users will have a better performing OS[2] [1]: https://github.com/xamarin/XobotOS https://github.com/xamarin/XobotOS [2]: https://blog.xamarin.com/android-in-c-sharp/ https://blog.xamarin.com/android-in-c-sharp/

giancarlostoro 11y ago
I've wondered the same. Apple did a good move with Swift. Not sure why Google doesn't invest in their own language. Would be really nice to see a full on native and new language for Android by Google.
- dingo_bat 11y ago
  I'm wondering why this is downvoted. I would love to have an official Android language that is better suited to mobile than Java. Instead of hacking away at the JVM (or cloning it) to make it work properly on CPU/memory/power-limited devices.
  - nitrogen 11y ago
    Java (as J2ME) has been running on mobile devices for more than a decade with ample performance.
    - dingo_bat 11y ago
      J2ME never had near enough functionality for the apps to do anything very interesting. I do not recall a single J2ME app apart from Opera Mini which was worth using. All the good (by the standards of that time) apps were non-J2ME, at least on Symbian and Windows Mobile. So even though it was fast enough, I wouldn't compare it to Java as it exists for Android now.
      - nitrogen 11y ago
        The only thing that hindered J2ME on my old flip phone from 2006 was the carrier disabling all the interesting APIs. If Android had been based on J2ME and put control in the hands of users instead of carriers, it would be a much better system IMO, especially in terms of security.
        pjmlp 11y ago
        Also J2ME is still doing quite well in the embedded space.
      - invalidname 11y ago
        You need to go to Japan more often. I worked quite a lot with NTT DoCoMo and they had amazingly useful games and apps. Everything from a bank machine locator to physical vending machine purchases (with NFC). They had motion sensor support in J2ME devices that they used mostly for fishing/golf games circa 2003-2004 (don't hold me at the dates my memory is the gray equivalent of Swiss cheese). Anyway, J2ME had a lot of levels CDC was pretty much Android equivalent but it didn't have GUI API on top of it because Sun disallowed MIDP on top of CDC and didn't offer anything other than AGUI which nobody used... I can go into endless details here but generally, the reason J2ME failed was that it was a tool built in 1999 with a single moderate update in 2004 and nothing else!
        kuschku 11y ago
        Also at least in Germany we had millions of games and apps in java for phones, even with touchscreen and bluetooth support to play with others. It was really amazing to play games like [1] on phones like [2] [1] http://java.mob.com.de/game/anno_create_a_new_world.html http://java.mob.com.de/game/anno_create_a_new_world.html [2] http://www.siamphone.com/spec/lg/images/kp501/lg_kp501_1.jpg http://www.siamphone.com/spec/lg/images/kp501/lg_kp501_1.jpg
- StevePerkins 11y ago
  > Not sure why Google doesn't invest in their own language. Has no one in this branch of the thread ever heard of a little thing called Go? You could also bring up Dart, although Google's apparent commitment (and my own interest) in that is far lower. Work IS coming along on being able to write full Android apps entirely in other Google-originated languages. You might reasonably ask why they're not pouring dramatically more resources into accelerating that process. I don't know, but I can only speculate that the enormous scale of the existing Android ecosystem makes it risky to send the wrong signal prematurely. If we're looking at a matter of years before full featured Android apps in pure Go is feasible, then you probably wouldn't want to talk that up TODAY. The perception would be that Java on Android is dead, and major new app development for Android would halt.
  - giancarlostoro 11y ago
    Go isn't invested by Google itself though. It's made by Google employees.
    - gecko 11y ago
      …who are paid to work full-time on it. How does that not count as Google investing in it? What else would investing even mean?
      - pjmlp 11y ago
        Adding Go to the official SDK and providing official bindings. Go team is just doing what everyone else does, by making use of the NDK and writing Go wrappers manually on top of JNI calls to the official Android APIs. So far there have been zero interest from Android team to support anything other than Java. Even the C and C++ support is just to write performance code to be consumed from Java, not to write full blown apps.
      - giancarlostoro 11y ago
        They were never asked by Google to make a language, and as far as I've always known (feel free to provide a link that says otherwise) Google employees are allowed to spend some of their work time to work on side projects, I've never heard of Google only paying them to work on Go and only Go, please feel free to correct me on this as it's news to me.
- bad_user 11y ago
  Right, because yet another half-backed programming language is exactly what the world needs.
on_and_off 11y ago
the comparison between dalvik & xamarin is not that interesting anymore (it was in 2012 though). It would be interesting to remake this bench. Why doesn't Google ditch java ? Because such a switch would be very costly and there are many more cost effective ways to improve the platform (like for example databinding). I also doubt that Google would choose a language controlled by Microsoft, they had enough trouble with the java lawsuit.. if the rumors of the merge of Android & ChromeOS are true, maybe this will be accompanied with with a big framework change ? It will depend on how this plan materialize exactly but that would be the right time for that.

by po1nter 11y ago

giancarlostoro 11y ago

I've wondered the same. Apple did a good move with Swift. Not sure why Google doesn't invest in their own language. Would be really nice to see a full on native and new language for Android by Google.

dingo_bat 11y ago
I'm wondering why this is downvoted. I would love to have an official Android language that is better suited to mobile than Java. Instead of hacking away at the JVM (or cloning it) to make it work properly on CPU/memory/power-limited devices.
- nitrogen 11y ago
  Java (as J2ME) has been running on mobile devices for more than a decade with ample performance.
  - dingo_bat 11y ago
    J2ME never had near enough functionality for the apps to do anything very interesting. I do not recall a single J2ME app apart from Opera Mini which was worth using. All the good (by the standards of that time) apps were non-J2ME, at least on Symbian and Windows Mobile. So even though it was fast enough, I wouldn't compare it to Java as it exists for Android now.
    - nitrogen 11y ago
      The only thing that hindered J2ME on my old flip phone from 2006 was the carrier disabling all the interesting APIs. If Android had been based on J2ME and put control in the hands of users instead of carriers, it would be a much better system IMO, especially in terms of security.
      - pjmlp 11y ago
        Also J2ME is still doing quite well in the embedded space.
    - invalidname 11y ago
      You need to go to Japan more often. I worked quite a lot with NTT DoCoMo and they had amazingly useful games and apps. Everything from a bank machine locator to physical vending machine purchases (with NFC). They had motion sensor support in J2ME devices that they used mostly for fishing/golf games circa 2003-2004 (don't hold me at the dates my memory is the gray equivalent of Swiss cheese). Anyway, J2ME had a lot of levels CDC was pretty much Android equivalent but it didn't have GUI API on top of it because Sun disallowed MIDP on top of CDC and didn't offer anything other than AGUI which nobody used... I can go into endless details here but generally, the reason J2ME failed was that it was a tool built in 1999 with a single moderate update in 2004 and nothing else!
      - kuschku 11y ago
        Also at least in Germany we had millions of games and apps in java for phones, even with touchscreen and bluetooth support to play with others. It was really amazing to play games like [1] on phones like [2] [1] http://java.mob.com.de/game/anno_create_a_new_world.html http://java.mob.com.de/game/anno_create_a_new_world.html [2] http://www.siamphone.com/spec/lg/images/kp501/lg_kp501_1.jpg http://www.siamphone.com/spec/lg/images/kp501/lg_kp501_1.jpg
StevePerkins 11y ago
> Not sure why Google doesn't invest in their own language. Has no one in this branch of the thread ever heard of a little thing called Go? You could also bring up Dart, although Google's apparent commitment (and my own interest) in that is far lower. Work IS coming along on being able to write full Android apps entirely in other Google-originated languages. You might reasonably ask why they're not pouring dramatically more resources into accelerating that process. I don't know, but I can only speculate that the enormous scale of the existing Android ecosystem makes it risky to send the wrong signal prematurely. If we're looking at a matter of years before full featured Android apps in pure Go is feasible, then you probably wouldn't want to talk that up TODAY. The perception would be that Java on Android is dead, and major new app development for Android would halt.
- giancarlostoro 11y ago
  Go isn't invested by Google itself though. It's made by Google employees.
  - gecko 11y ago
    …who are paid to work full-time on it. How does that not count as Google investing in it? What else would investing even mean?
    - pjmlp 11y ago
      Adding Go to the official SDK and providing official bindings. Go team is just doing what everyone else does, by making use of the NDK and writing Go wrappers manually on top of JNI calls to the official Android APIs. So far there have been zero interest from Android team to support anything other than Java. Even the C and C++ support is just to write performance code to be consumed from Java, not to write full blown apps.
    - giancarlostoro 11y ago
      They were never asked by Google to make a language, and as far as I've always known (feel free to provide a link that says otherwise) Google employees are allowed to spend some of their work time to work on side projects, I've never heard of Google only paying them to work on Go and only Go, please feel free to correct me on this as it's news to me.
bad_user 11y ago
Right, because yet another half-backed programming language is exactly what the world needs.

on_and_off 11y ago

the comparison between dalvik & xamarin is not that interesting anymore (it was in 2012 though). It would be interesting to remake this bench. Why doesn't Google ditch java ? Because such a switch would be very costly and there are many more cost effective ways to improve the platform (like for example databinding). I also doubt that Google would choose a language controlled by Microsoft, they had enough trouble with the java lawsuit.. if the rumors of the merge of Android & ChromeOS are true, maybe this will be accompanied with with a big framework change ? It will depend on how this plan materialize exactly but that would be the right time for that.