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Arc seems to embody the idea that "Language design is library design, and vice-versa", but how can we tell where the boundry is? When I look at something like

Arc seems to embody the idea that "Language design is library design, and vice-versa", but how can we tell where the boundry is? When I look at something like (defop said req (aform [w/link (pr "you said: " (arg _ "foo")) (pr "click here")] (input "foo") (submit))) what I see is more or less ordinary lisp that uses a library to solve an issue with applications that rely on http. I'm sure plenty of us could do the equivalent with the appropriate Python/Perl/Php/Ruby library, but then the obvious criticism would be that you're not really comparing lanugages. You would be comparing libraries. Plenty of examples over here: http://arclanguage.com/item?id=722 http://arclanguage.com/item?id=722 Is it really the case that when you boil it down, Arc (language+libraries) is about making small web programs? If not, why this challenge and if so I suspect it won't live up to the 100-year idea.

bayareaguy 19y ago
Note: I posted this at http://arclanguage.org/item?id=1043 http://arclanguage.org/item?id=1043 as well. It's kind of weird having this topic on both YC news and Arc news. Suppose instead of being a temporary state of affairs, YC/Arc news were to support cross-forum discussions. How simple would that be to support in Arc as it is today? I.e. no fair adding something like (crosspost) to the core libraries.
pg 19y ago
It's true that this example will do more to distinguish Arc from other languages than from other Lisp dialects. But if I'd used a Lispy sort of problem as a challenge, everyone would have accused me of cheating by using an example that favored Lisp dialects. I'll eventually post some comparisons of the same programs in Arc and other Lisp dialects.
- gibsonf1 19y ago
  I'm very interested in the Arc vs. Lisp comparisons. (especially vs. CL)
dzorz 19y ago
Here is my contrived example: How would you, in your favorite language, implement a program that displays GDP information for every country for years from 1970-2007 using a nice graph. Countries should be selectable using a fancy popup menu that displays country name and country shape... Using Mathematica 6: MenuView[Row[{Rasterize[ Show[CountryData[#, "Shape"], ImageSize -> {40, 40}], Background -> None], #}] -> Dynamic[DateListPlot[CountryData[#, {{"GDP"}, {1970, 2005}}]]] & /@ CountryData[], ImageSize -> Automatic]
yters 19y ago
Languages are about a powerful set of orthogonal primitives (types) and I see pg trying to distill web primitives in a language. I haven't thought enough to say whether there is such a thing as a web primitive truly orthogonal to standard types, though. But, I think it's an interesting question. I'm sure someone has addressed this very well, but I'm not sure where to look. Anyone happen to know?

bayareaguy 19y ago

Note: I posted this at http://arclanguage.org/item?id=1043 http://arclanguage.org/item?id=1043 as well. It's kind of weird having this topic on both YC news and Arc news. Suppose instead of being a temporary state of affairs, YC/Arc news were to support cross-forum discussions. How simple would that be to support in Arc as it is today? I.e. no fair adding something like (crosspost) to the core libraries.

pg 19y ago

It's true that this example will do more to distinguish Arc from other languages than from other Lisp dialects. But if I'd used a Lispy sort of problem as a challenge, everyone would have accused me of cheating by using an example that favored Lisp dialects. I'll eventually post some comparisons of the same programs in Arc and other Lisp dialects.

gibsonf1 19y ago
I'm very interested in the Arc vs. Lisp comparisons. (especially vs. CL)

dzorz 19y ago

Here is my contrived example: How would you, in your favorite language, implement a program that displays GDP information for every country for years from 1970-2007 using a nice graph. Countries should be selectable using a fancy popup menu that displays country name and country shape... Using Mathematica 6: MenuView[Row[{Rasterize[ Show[CountryData[#, "Shape"], ImageSize -> {40, 40}], Background -> None], #}] -> Dynamic[DateListPlot[CountryData[#, {{"GDP"}, {1970, 2005}}]]] & /@ CountryData[], ImageSize -> Automatic]

yters 19y ago

Languages are about a powerful set of orthogonal primitives (types) and I see pg trying to distill web primitives in a language. I haven't thought enough to say whether there is such a thing as a web primitive truly orthogonal to standard types, though. But, I think it's an interesting question. I'm sure someone has addressed this very well, but I'm not sure where to look. Anyone happen to know?