4 ms·

The iPad keyboard: Atari 400 all over again.

16 points by technologizer 17y ago

rbanffy 17y ago
I think the size puts it closer to the Sinclair ZX-80/81 family.
mechanical_fish 17y ago
Has Apple officially announced that they will sue anyone who develops a third-party external keyboard? Perhaps, but I doubt it. Ergo, I suspect that there will be lots and lots of third party keyboards for those of us who insist on trying to write novels on this thing. Or, you know, we will buy laptops. It's worth noting that the Atari 400 had a terrible keyboard because... it wasn't really designed for writing. It was a gaming platform masquerading as a computer. Of course, many people tried to make it stretch, because at the time actual computers cost many thousands of dollars more...
- tvon 17y ago
  For the iPad anyway, any bluetooth keyboard will work.
  - lurkinggrue 17y ago
    As long as Apple didn't disable that.
    - tvon 17y ago
      It's been reported by multiple sources to be a feature of the device, not a "this should work" but "this is made to work".
blahedo 17y ago
The iPhone has one property that improves its keyboard that will presumably be inherited by the iPad: predictive algorithms make "more likely" keys have larger zones, even though the keyboard graphic isn't redrawn, so that if your finger hits an area between two keys, or even slightly onto an adjacent key, the "right" key will be interpreted instead. (The author also mentions autocorrection, which is not quite the same.) But yeah, it still is just not going to be as good of tactile feedback as an actual keyboard, and virtually impossible to type on without looking at the keys---small hand placement errors will compound without constant feedback and will eventually cause "keyboard drift". (And the most infamous example of a membrane keyboard that I'm aware of is the IBM PCjr... it's certainly the example that I use when I'm explaining to people why touch screens suck for typing.)
- Zev 17y ago
  But yeah, it still is just not going to be as good of tactile feedback as an actual keyboard This was one of the most common complaints about the iPhone when it first came out. Now? Its not complained about nearly as often. I think its safe to say that for most people, the lack of a physical keyboard on the iPhone isn't a negative.
  - alanthonyc 17y ago
    I can live with it, but it's still a compromise. The negative of not having tactile feedback from the keys is more than compensated for by the rest of the features available on the iPhone. Not being able to touch type is a pain.
  - baddox 17y ago
    I still don't like the iPhone keyboard. I don't perpetually complain about it, I just elect to never buy one.
    - mbreese 17y ago
      If you don't own one, then why are you commenting about it? Until you've used the iPhone keyboard for a significant length of time, how can you claim that you don't like it? I don't know anyone that would claim that the iPhone has a great keyboard or would want to do any lengthy typing on it. By and large though, people I know think that it's 'better than expected'. Perhaps with the larger size of the iPad, it might work well for a keyboard. I'm still not typing for hours on it, but for emails or notes during a meeting, it might work just fine.
      - baddox 17y ago
        Perhaps I'm biased. Unfortunately, people who purchase an iPhone may also be biased by post-purchase rationalization. I actually have used touch-screen keyboards, especially the iPhone's, many times. I'm not saying it's the worst experience ever. It's far better than typing on a number pad with T9 or another predictive algorithm. With time it would certainly be doable, maybe even unnoticeable to the user. Still, it is far worse than even the worst tactile qwerty phone keyboard.
Luc 17y ago
Cute comparison, but do you really need key travel when there is great visual and audio feedback? It's not like you have to hammer the iPhone like you did the ZX-80...
asmithmd1 17y ago
One HUGE difference. The Atari 400 was the first computer I bought - for about that same price as an iPad if I remember correctly. I also bought a surplus real keyboard and wired it to the membrane keyboard's connector. That kind of hacking is not possible Now without license agreements, propriatary connectors, etc
- protomyth 17y ago
  or just buy any bluetooth wireless keyboard for the iPad.
protomyth 17y ago
I had an Atari 400 and typed quite a bit on it. I assure you the iPad is nothing like an Atari 400. The Atari 400 required a bit of pressure that made it truly unpleasant.
- mbreese 17y ago
  I hated typing on the 400... the pressure was always hard to judge, and I always made mistakes when typing commands. Then again, I was a young kid, so I'm sure my dad appreciated the membrane keyboard when I was using it. Now, when I hand my toddler my iPhone to watch one of his videos, it always comes back all grimy. I think I'm starting to appreciate the 400's keyboard more and more...
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
AndyDent 17y ago
I owned various Palm models for years along with folding keyboards. I could take notes in meetings and seminars with that setup without having to look. My typing speed on the folding keyboard was enough to max out the Palm III models. The iPhone keyboard doesn't come close to matching this experience and I'm highly skeptical that even a bigger onscreen keyboard will meet the same need for eyes-off typing.

16 points by technologizer 17y ago

I think the size puts it closer to the Sinclair ZX-80/81 family.

Has Apple officially announced that they will sue anyone who develops a third-party external keyboard? Perhaps, but I doubt it. Ergo, I suspect that there will be lots and lots of third party keyboards for those of us who insist on trying to write novels on this thing. Or, you know, we will buy laptops. It's worth noting that the Atari 400 had a terrible keyboard because... it wasn't really designed for writing. It was a gaming platform masquerading as a computer. Of course, many people tried to make it stretch, because at the time actual computers cost many thousands of dollars more...

tvon 17y ago
For the iPad anyway, any bluetooth keyboard will work.
- lurkinggrue 17y ago
  As long as Apple didn't disable that.
  - tvon 17y ago
    It's been reported by multiple sources to be a feature of the device, not a "this should work" but "this is made to work".

blahedo 17y ago

The iPhone has one property that improves its keyboard that will presumably be inherited by the iPad: predictive algorithms make "more likely" keys have larger zones, even though the keyboard graphic isn't redrawn, so that if your finger hits an area between two keys, or even slightly onto an adjacent key, the "right" key will be interpreted instead. (The author also mentions autocorrection, which is not quite the same.) But yeah, it still is just not going to be as good of tactile feedback as an actual keyboard, and virtually impossible to type on without looking at the keys---small hand placement errors will compound without constant feedback and will eventually cause "keyboard drift". (And the most infamous example of a membrane keyboard that I'm aware of is the IBM PCjr... it's certainly the example that I use when I'm explaining to people why touch screens suck for typing.)

Zev 17y ago
But yeah, it still is just not going to be as good of tactile feedback as an actual keyboard This was one of the most common complaints about the iPhone when it first came out. Now? Its not complained about nearly as often. I think its safe to say that for most people, the lack of a physical keyboard on the iPhone isn't a negative.
- alanthonyc 17y ago
  I can live with it, but it's still a compromise. The negative of not having tactile feedback from the keys is more than compensated for by the rest of the features available on the iPhone. Not being able to touch type is a pain.
- baddox 17y ago
  I still don't like the iPhone keyboard. I don't perpetually complain about it, I just elect to never buy one.
  - mbreese 17y ago
    If you don't own one, then why are you commenting about it? Until you've used the iPhone keyboard for a significant length of time, how can you claim that you don't like it? I don't know anyone that would claim that the iPhone has a great keyboard or would want to do any lengthy typing on it. By and large though, people I know think that it's 'better than expected'. Perhaps with the larger size of the iPad, it might work well for a keyboard. I'm still not typing for hours on it, but for emails or notes during a meeting, it might work just fine.
    - baddox 17y ago
      Perhaps I'm biased. Unfortunately, people who purchase an iPhone may also be biased by post-purchase rationalization. I actually have used touch-screen keyboards, especially the iPhone's, many times. I'm not saying it's the worst experience ever. It's far better than typing on a number pad with T9 or another predictive algorithm. With time it would certainly be doable, maybe even unnoticeable to the user. Still, it is far worse than even the worst tactile qwerty phone keyboard.

Luc 17y ago

Cute comparison, but do you really need key travel when there is great visual and audio feedback? It's not like you have to hammer the iPhone like you did the ZX-80...

asmithmd1 17y ago

One HUGE difference. The Atari 400 was the first computer I bought - for about that same price as an iPad if I remember correctly. I also bought a surplus real keyboard and wired it to the membrane keyboard's connector. That kind of hacking is not possible Now without license agreements, propriatary connectors, etc

protomyth 17y ago
or just buy any bluetooth wireless keyboard for the iPad.

protomyth 17y ago

I had an Atari 400 and typed quite a bit on it. I assure you the iPad is nothing like an Atari 400. The Atari 400 required a bit of pressure that made it truly unpleasant.

mbreese 17y ago
I hated typing on the 400... the pressure was always hard to judge, and I always made mistakes when typing commands. Then again, I was a young kid, so I'm sure my dad appreciated the membrane keyboard when I was using it. Now, when I hand my toddler my iPhone to watch one of his videos, it always comes back all grimy. I think I'm starting to appreciate the 400's keyboard more and more...

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

AndyDent 17y ago

I owned various Palm models for years along with folding keyboards. I could take notes in meetings and seminars with that setup without having to look. My typing speed on the folding keyboard was enough to max out the Palm III models. The iPhone keyboard doesn't come close to matching this experience and I'm highly skeptical that even a bigger onscreen keyboard will meet the same need for eyes-off typing.