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Wow that's terrifying. I think it's systemic, and we need to be very clear what we want a company (like Dell) to do in this situation. Programmers are not usu

by geocar 11y ago

Wow that's terrifying. I think it's systemic, and we need to be very clear what we want a company (like Dell) to do in this situation. Programmers are not usually held accountable for their own bugs, and I think that needs to change too. I don't recommend prison time, but maybe just some humility? Bankers do the same thing: Past performance is not a guarantee of future results, and I get they're just doing their best, so why don't they put their own money in the same pot? Heck, we expect the cafe to refund our coffee if they mix it up wrong, so why can't we just push that message upwards?

kruczek 11y ago
> Programmers are not usually held accountable for their own bugs, and I think that needs to change too. I disagree. Bugs are created and will be created; it is up to the proper process to test the system and get rid of them. A bug that goes into production code is a collective failure. Why do you blame the programmer, but won't blame the tester, or the guy who designed the test, or the guy who designed whole workflow, or the architect who planned the system?
- geocar 11y ago
  > Why do you blame the programmer, but won't blame the tester, or the guy who designed the test, or the guy who designed whole workflow, or the architect who planned the system? Where did you get the idea that I don't? I think people make mistakes sometimes (myself included), but I don't somehow think that diminishes the mistake. I also think the programmer has less responsibility than the architect, or the CTO (which is why we pay them more). I don't like that shit only runs downhill.
  - alextgordon 11y ago
    The best programmers have a choice of where they work, and will avoid environments that have a reputation for excessive blaming or scapegoating. So it's a self-defeating strategy for a company to take. Only the desperate need apply. Better to create an environment like the fabled NASA software lab, where individuals are never blamed -- only the "process". That will attract high-quality applicants.
    - geocar 11y ago
      That's a good point. I don't know. Maybe if we can get top programmers paid more to stop bullshitting we can do something about that.

by geocar 11y ago

kruczek 11y ago

> Programmers are not usually held accountable for their own bugs, and I think that needs to change too. I disagree. Bugs are created and will be created; it is up to the proper process to test the system and get rid of them. A bug that goes into production code is a collective failure. Why do you blame the programmer, but won't blame the tester, or the guy who designed the test, or the guy who designed whole workflow, or the architect who planned the system?

geocar 11y ago
> Why do you blame the programmer, but won't blame the tester, or the guy who designed the test, or the guy who designed whole workflow, or the architect who planned the system? Where did you get the idea that I don't? I think people make mistakes sometimes (myself included), but I don't somehow think that diminishes the mistake. I also think the programmer has less responsibility than the architect, or the CTO (which is why we pay them more). I don't like that shit only runs downhill.
- alextgordon 11y ago
  The best programmers have a choice of where they work, and will avoid environments that have a reputation for excessive blaming or scapegoating. So it's a self-defeating strategy for a company to take. Only the desperate need apply. Better to create an environment like the fabled NASA software lab, where individuals are never blamed -- only the "process". That will attract high-quality applicants.
  - geocar 11y ago
    That's a good point. I don't know. Maybe if we can get top programmers paid more to stop bullshitting we can do something about that.