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How's it different from active pens that graphics tablets have been using for some 20 years now? EDIT: Yes, wacom mostly uses passive pens. But active pens are

by creshal 11y ago

How's it different from active pens that graphics tablets have been using for some 20 years now? EDIT: Yes, wacom mostly uses passive pens. But active pens are not new, Wacom has been shipping them for a few years, too, as has been the competition. Cf. the pens of the Surface and Yoga notebooks.

afandian 11y ago
Most obvious is there's no massive induction coil. Looks like the apple pencil has a battery. EDIT: Here's a Wacom. Coil for positioning and powering. One at each end because there's an eraser function. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Graphics+Tablet+Stylus+Teardown/3092 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Graphics+Tablet+Stylus+Teard...
- arethuza 11y ago
  So like the pen the MS Surface has had for a while? [NB I have a Surface and many Apple devices - so I'm not particularly biased against/for Apple].
- kabdib 11y ago
  If the battery on the Apple pen is non-replaceable, you are essentially renting the hardware. I'm sick of devices that work for 2-3 years and then die because the batteries aren't field-replaceable when they degrade.
  - jakobegger 11y ago
    Do your devices really stop working after two years? Batteries definitely degrade, but in my experience with Apple products, they only become unusable after around five years...
    - dragontamer 11y ago
      2-years is the low end for how long Lithium-Ion batteries last. They last anywhere between 2 to 5 years in my experience. Batteries are NOT uniform, they will last varying amounts. Therefore, field-replaceable parts are important. Many of my laptops (I manage at work or at home) are on their 2nd or 3rd battery for instance. Field-replaceable batteries is good, long-lasting design. Apple however does not like this idea on any of their products. In general though, Apple's support seems to be around receiving broken parts, replacing their batteries at "Genius centers" and mailing them back. So I'm not really criticizing Apple here. But their innate design ties customers to the Genius bar for support for the simplest of hardware faults (ie: this battery issue).
      - jakobegger 11y ago
        Yeah, Apple really sucks with respect to repairability. They won't sell spare parts, and the authorized repair shops only swap major parts (a single key cap is broken? You need a new keyboard!) It's ridiculous that I can get spares for a 40€ coffee maker, but not for a 1000€ laptop.
grabcocque 11y ago
It doesn't appear to work much like a Wacom stylus at all. Wacom styluses are fairly passive, dumb devices, basically an induction coil in a plastic case. This appears to be a rechargeable, active-sensing device. I don't think this is unintentional. iPad Pro and Apple Pencil is Apple's warning to Wacom: we are coming for you.
- praseodym 11y ago
  Wacom has a patent on passive, induction-powered styluses: http://www.google.com/patents/US7358964 http://www.google.com/patents/US7358964
- glasz 11y ago
  > I don't think this is unintentional. iPad Pro and Apple Pencil is Apple's warning to Wacom: we are coming for you. spot on. i've heard that designers at apple are so fed up with the crap that is any wacom tablet because wacom doesn't innovate in any way anymore. their devices are clunky, ugly pieces of plastic. if not for public release, they'd be making the pro/pencil for their own. let's see what wacom does, now.
  - jjtheblunt 11y ago
    You've heard?
  - LazyAssasin 11y ago
    Yep. I bought one for my wife – an illustrator. I enjoyed it so much I bought one for me (UX/front end dev) and am Craigslist-ing our Wacom Cintiq and Intuos. The Cintiq lag is awful, while the disassociation between screen and tablet of the Intuos was always “best of a bad solution”. Personally, I always found the “give” in Wacom’s styli to accommodate pressure sensitivity too much for my liking, but my medium of preference was always lead holders; I suspect those who prefer painting, pastel or other softer medium might have the opposite opinion. It’s not perfect, there’s still some lag in different apps. Wacom also had a slightly better “tooth” on the drawing surface. The omission of an “eraser” can be annoying, though I would imagine less so for artists who wouldn’t use the eraser on a drawing implement anyway. The various buttons on both the Wacom tablet and the pen were also really helpful, though a bit overwhelming. Wacom also has a variety of nibs for different feeling brushes. My TL;DR the Wacom is a more productive and perhaps more capable tool, but the iPad Pro + Pencil combination is the closest any technology has come to replicating paper & pencil. When you compare the costs $799 for the cheapest 13" Wacom Cintiq vs $898 for the iPad Pro + Pencil it’s going to be a no-brainer for a lot of artists who aren’t deeply entrenched in a Wacom workflow.

by creshal 11y ago

afandian 11y ago

Most obvious is there's no massive induction coil. Looks like the apple pencil has a battery. EDIT: Here's a Wacom. Coil for positioning and powering. One at each end because there's an eraser function. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Graphics+Tablet+Stylus+Teardown/3092 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Graphics+Tablet+Stylus+Teard...

arethuza 11y ago
So like the pen the MS Surface has had for a while? [NB I have a Surface and many Apple devices - so I'm not particularly biased against/for Apple].
kabdib 11y ago
If the battery on the Apple pen is non-replaceable, you are essentially renting the hardware. I'm sick of devices that work for 2-3 years and then die because the batteries aren't field-replaceable when they degrade.
- jakobegger 11y ago
  Do your devices really stop working after two years? Batteries definitely degrade, but in my experience with Apple products, they only become unusable after around five years...
  - dragontamer 11y ago
    2-years is the low end for how long Lithium-Ion batteries last. They last anywhere between 2 to 5 years in my experience. Batteries are NOT uniform, they will last varying amounts. Therefore, field-replaceable parts are important. Many of my laptops (I manage at work or at home) are on their 2nd or 3rd battery for instance. Field-replaceable batteries is good, long-lasting design. Apple however does not like this idea on any of their products. In general though, Apple's support seems to be around receiving broken parts, replacing their batteries at "Genius centers" and mailing them back. So I'm not really criticizing Apple here. But their innate design ties customers to the Genius bar for support for the simplest of hardware faults (ie: this battery issue).
    - jakobegger 11y ago
      Yeah, Apple really sucks with respect to repairability. They won't sell spare parts, and the authorized repair shops only swap major parts (a single key cap is broken? You need a new keyboard!) It's ridiculous that I can get spares for a 40€ coffee maker, but not for a 1000€ laptop.

grabcocque 11y ago

It doesn't appear to work much like a Wacom stylus at all. Wacom styluses are fairly passive, dumb devices, basically an induction coil in a plastic case. This appears to be a rechargeable, active-sensing device. I don't think this is unintentional. iPad Pro and Apple Pencil is Apple's warning to Wacom: we are coming for you.

praseodym 11y ago
Wacom has a patent on passive, induction-powered styluses: http://www.google.com/patents/US7358964 http://www.google.com/patents/US7358964
glasz 11y ago
> I don't think this is unintentional. iPad Pro and Apple Pencil is Apple's warning to Wacom: we are coming for you. spot on. i've heard that designers at apple are so fed up with the crap that is any wacom tablet because wacom doesn't innovate in any way anymore. their devices are clunky, ugly pieces of plastic. if not for public release, they'd be making the pro/pencil for their own. let's see what wacom does, now.
- jjtheblunt 11y ago
  You've heard?
- LazyAssasin 11y ago
  Yep. I bought one for my wife – an illustrator. I enjoyed it so much I bought one for me (UX/front end dev) and am Craigslist-ing our Wacom Cintiq and Intuos. The Cintiq lag is awful, while the disassociation between screen and tablet of the Intuos was always “best of a bad solution”. Personally, I always found the “give” in Wacom’s styli to accommodate pressure sensitivity too much for my liking, but my medium of preference was always lead holders; I suspect those who prefer painting, pastel or other softer medium might have the opposite opinion. It’s not perfect, there’s still some lag in different apps. Wacom also had a slightly better “tooth” on the drawing surface. The omission of an “eraser” can be annoying, though I would imagine less so for artists who wouldn’t use the eraser on a drawing implement anyway. The various buttons on both the Wacom tablet and the pen were also really helpful, though a bit overwhelming. Wacom also has a variety of nibs for different feeling brushes. My TL;DR the Wacom is a more productive and perhaps more capable tool, but the iPad Pro + Pencil combination is the closest any technology has come to replicating paper & pencil. When you compare the costs $799 for the cheapest 13" Wacom Cintiq vs $898 for the iPad Pro + Pencil it’s going to be a no-brainer for a lot of artists who aren’t deeply entrenched in a Wacom workflow.