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Video: "the drug is definitely working because I've been lying in bed for an hour, and I just can't get to sleep." An hour?? Amateur. It takes me 2-4 hours eve

by byuu 11y ago

Video: "the drug is definitely working because I've been lying in bed for an hour, and I just can't get to sleep." An hour?? Amateur. It takes me 2-4 hours every night to fall asleep, no matter how tired I am when I lay down. And then I wake up 3-4 hours later, and then fall asleep again after another 30 or so minutes. Been that way for as long as I can remember. So yeah, I'm always tired during the day. Was starting to affect job performance, and things to help sleep (eg melatonin, no blue light or caffeine before bed, etc) weren't helping. So I tried modafinil myself, as well as armodafinil. The latter's much nicer. But neither are any kind of miracle drug. I don't get any headaches from it, but I do notice my palms sweat a lot more, my appetite decreases a bit, my joint paints are amplified significantly, and it's easier to stay awake. But it's not like being wide awake. It's still clear that I'm mentally worn out. I'm not really sure if this is an atypical result, but I can't really see how this is a very good "study drug" given that. It is a boost, definitely, but it's a very tiny one, like ~10-15%. I also build up a tolerance surprisingly fast. I can't use it more than two days in a week. Thankfully, the tolerance fades pretty quickly as well. Also, to anyone who tries it, be sure you stay away from caffeinated beverages while on it. This stuff seems to amplify caffeine's effects or something, and it's quite unpleasant. A cop of coffee plus 200mg of modafinil's about equivalent to taking two caffeine tablets for me. Of course, you probably won't be able to get it. Doctors are incredibly stingy with prescribing this, and even if they do, the US brands are around $1000 - $1300 per month.

peteretep 11y ago
Sounds like you have a sensitivity to caffeine? I find it works best with a cup or two of coffee. Also, 200mg seems high. I can get a decent effect from 50mg, and a big one from 100mg
- byuu 11y ago
  I'd be surprised if I had a sensitivity to it. I drink tea all the time. Not really a big fan of coffee, but sometimes I'll drink that as well. I also don't get hangovers when I avoid caffeine. And I have lots of strange tolerances to other chemicals, so ... I'm kind of an oddball, I guess. Probably some weird liver issues going on. The tablets come as 200mg, and the armodafinil as 150mg. I did try cutting them in half, but found the effect much weaker. Even the whole tablet of the stronger armodafinil doesn't really get me back to "wide awake" status like everyone seems to claim they get. It's more like, "exhausted but not yawning and having trouble keeping my eyes open" tired.
rorykoehler 11y ago
Have you tried cannabis?
- byuu 11y ago
  I have, it's quite nice. Didn't have enough to try it for sleeping. But it's not obtainable at all here. I'm not the kind of person who knows how to make those connections to obtain it on the black market either. Everyone who seems to know how to get it is also hopelessly unreliable, go figure. I'll just have to hold out hope that my state will join the other four US states that legalized it by 2050 or so.
- mercer 11y ago
  While it might work, I've read that while cannabis helps you fall asleep, it's actually often not conducive to 'good' sleep. This has also been the experience of a number of people I know. Lack of deep sleep, waking up in the middle of the night, etc. Perhaps it's different for different people, and perhaps this is only a problem if you smoke too much though. I'm not sure.
puranjay 11y ago
I had similar problems sleeping. Somehow, Vitamin D supplements helped a lot. Don't really know why.
- byuu 11y ago
  Yep, I had 9mcg/ml or whatever it was. Was supposed to be 50, but I was at 9. I've been taking 1000% Vitamin D3 daily for the past eight months or so. Also occasionally take calcium (for heartburn) and magnesium. I think it did ultimately help with some bad chest pains I was experiencing, but a lot of that has also just been acclimation to them. Haven't gotten another blood test to see what I'm at now, because even with my insurance, the out of pocket charge for the last visit was over $1000. Has not really helped with sleeping, though. I hear natural UV light is supposedly a lot better than D3 supplements. There was a good TED talk on how that helped people's cardiovascular health as well, whereas supplements did not. But all the "sun lamps" filter out the UV for the risk of skin cancer. The only actual UV ones I can find are meant for reptiles (lizards, turtles) or cost $1000+ >_>
justifier 11y ago
why view sleep as an unconcious act? sure if you force yourself to stop breathing eventually your body will shut down and force you to breathe but you are also capable of taking control of your breaths, determine their length, frequency, potency sleep is the same learn to control it if those 2-4 hours are undesired, while waiting for your body to wrestle control back from you, then they are wasted, or worse, time.. unless you argue those 2-4 hours are actually meditation time for you
- byuu 11y ago
  When I do lie down, it's because I'm too mentally fatigued to continue working. It's usually 13-16 hours after having woken up (or as little as 6-8 hours if I am working intensely the entire time), so this is normal. The 2-4 hours are just wasted time where my mind goes over having a million fake "conversations" in my head, recalling past traumatic events and regretting my actions then, and if I'm lucky, thinking about a problem I've been trying to solve during the day. Can't really count it as meditation because my mind is racing at 100 miles an hour the entire time. I can always tell when I'm getting close to falling asleep because my thoughts become more and more erratic, almost dream-like in their absurdity. Sometimes I'll snap out of that state and realize what was happening. I'd love to learn how to control it, though. That'd be super.
  - justifier 11y ago
    I'd love to learn how to control it, though. That'd be super. i'm going to interpret this as you asking for suggested techniques for controlling your sleep i'm happy to offer some methods i use: slow down, create a sleep space you can trust, breathe, visualise, learn i'm writing up a fuller explanation that i will post as a reply to this comment either later today or maybe midday tomorrow for you, or posterity
  - mercer 11y ago
    Have you tried actual meditation? I also have sleep problems because my mind just won't quiet down. Few things have helped as well as meditation before bedtime. I've also read that the frequent habit of meditation (which sadly I've not mastered yet) in general has the long-term effect of being able to control this 'inner monologue' permanently. It also really helps just throughout the day. Quite regularly my brain just goes into overdrive and by late afternoon it's all over the place. Every single time that I force myself to sit and meditate (I use the Headspace app, usually 20 min sessions), my mind is significantly calmer and I feel a sudden boost in energy. Kind of like pressing a reset button. The same goes for mornings. I often can't really get started until 11:00 or 12:00, but those few times where I manage to meditate first thing, I'm able to snap out of the 'coffee/internet' ritual with very little effort. Perhaps it's extra effective for me because I get overstimulated and/or over-obsessed much quicker than most people, but I'm still amazed at how effective something as simple as sitting and observing my thoughts as they pass actually is. In my opinion, if it's even half as effective for the rest of the population as it is for me, it should be as normal as brushing your teeth twice a day (and it often has been compared to brushing).
rdtsc 11y ago
Random things I did that I think worked: 1) Going for a walk in a park. Cool fresh outside air helps reset the brain. 2) Read something, preferably a book. Not on a phone or tablet. Not too interesting which will keep you awake wanting to finish it "Understanding The Linux Kernel", for example does wonders for me. 3) Watch a documentary about nature or space. Something not too intense or crazy.
- byuu 11y ago
  Thanks for your advice! For 1, that's a great idea and I really need the exercise. But it's ruled out for 4 months of the year due to northern temperatures. I have a very low tolerance for cold, so if there's snow outside, it's extremely unpleasant, tears up my throat, paradoxically burns my hands and ears, etc. Can overdress to compensate, but even then it's still unpleasant and slippery outside. For 2, I'd love to read more in general. But I have absolutely no imagination, and get lost in side thoughts. I'll find out after having read six pages that I had zoned out and don't remember a single thing I read. Maybe that's okay if I'm just trying to fall asleep. I think I'll give this suggestion a try with my "Making Sense of Japanese" book ;) For 3, won't the blue light from the TV cause someone to stay awake? I heard it disrupts the body's production of melatonin, because it think it's daylight.
  - RogtamBar 11y ago
    >For 1, that's a great idea and I really need the exercise. But it's ruled out for 4 months of the year due to northern temperatures. There's stationary bikes, gyms, etc. Plus, not going outside is an attitude issue. I've gone running a few times in winter, despite having Raynaud's syndrome (or something similar, my extremities tend towards ambient temperature unless I'm jogging or doing something equally strenuous). It's doable. Not pleasant and requires some thought and care though. >For 3, won't the blue light from the TV cause someone to stay awake? I Any bright screen makes falling asleep harder, fools the body into thinking it's daylight. Only something like Kindle with very gentle light doesn't make going to sleep harder.
randycupertino 11y ago
Have you tried trazodone for sleeping? That stuff knocks me out. I take adderall for ADHD and used to have insomnia too until my doc prescribed me trazodone. Now I fall asleep in 10 minutes and get the best sleep of my life. http://www.crazymeds.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Meds/Desyrel http://www.crazymeds.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Meds/Desyrel
- byuu 11y ago
  I haven't. Heard very bad things about prescription sleep aids not giving you proper REM sleep cycles, and being very habit forming (makes things worse when you get off or you build up a tolerance), and causing nasty side effects. That sounds nice, though. The Adderall would probably help a lot too, but I don't seem to have any luck at all with doctors being open to letting me try things out to see if they'd benefit me or not. The last time I went to one for sleep issues, she tried to push an SSRI (Zoloft) on me >_>
  - randycupertino 11y ago
    Maybe try asking your doctor about Trazodone. It is so old school that it doesn't have much of a stigma unlike the newer drugs out there that have bad reps for being addictive or encouraging drug seekers wit recreational uses (benzos, narcs, beta blockers) it's sort of an old mellow antidepressant that has sleep benefits. Doesn't get abused much because literally all it does is make people sleepy. I'm on a super low dose- 25mcg and it knocks me out with really good quality sleep. I think my "anxious brain" was what was keeping me up and when trazodone first came on the scene it was shown to help with anxiety. Good luck with everything.

by byuu 11y ago

peteretep 11y ago

Sounds like you have a sensitivity to caffeine? I find it works best with a cup or two of coffee. Also, 200mg seems high. I can get a decent effect from 50mg, and a big one from 100mg

byuu 11y ago
I'd be surprised if I had a sensitivity to it. I drink tea all the time. Not really a big fan of coffee, but sometimes I'll drink that as well. I also don't get hangovers when I avoid caffeine. And I have lots of strange tolerances to other chemicals, so ... I'm kind of an oddball, I guess. Probably some weird liver issues going on. The tablets come as 200mg, and the armodafinil as 150mg. I did try cutting them in half, but found the effect much weaker. Even the whole tablet of the stronger armodafinil doesn't really get me back to "wide awake" status like everyone seems to claim they get. It's more like, "exhausted but not yawning and having trouble keeping my eyes open" tired.

rorykoehler 11y ago

Have you tried cannabis?

byuu 11y ago
I have, it's quite nice. Didn't have enough to try it for sleeping. But it's not obtainable at all here. I'm not the kind of person who knows how to make those connections to obtain it on the black market either. Everyone who seems to know how to get it is also hopelessly unreliable, go figure. I'll just have to hold out hope that my state will join the other four US states that legalized it by 2050 or so.
mercer 11y ago
While it might work, I've read that while cannabis helps you fall asleep, it's actually often not conducive to 'good' sleep. This has also been the experience of a number of people I know. Lack of deep sleep, waking up in the middle of the night, etc. Perhaps it's different for different people, and perhaps this is only a problem if you smoke too much though. I'm not sure.

puranjay 11y ago

I had similar problems sleeping. Somehow, Vitamin D supplements helped a lot. Don't really know why.

byuu 11y ago
Yep, I had 9mcg/ml or whatever it was. Was supposed to be 50, but I was at 9. I've been taking 1000% Vitamin D3 daily for the past eight months or so. Also occasionally take calcium (for heartburn) and magnesium. I think it did ultimately help with some bad chest pains I was experiencing, but a lot of that has also just been acclimation to them. Haven't gotten another blood test to see what I'm at now, because even with my insurance, the out of pocket charge for the last visit was over $1000. Has not really helped with sleeping, though. I hear natural UV light is supposedly a lot better than D3 supplements. There was a good TED talk on how that helped people's cardiovascular health as well, whereas supplements did not. But all the "sun lamps" filter out the UV for the risk of skin cancer. The only actual UV ones I can find are meant for reptiles (lizards, turtles) or cost $1000+ >_>

justifier 11y ago

why view sleep as an unconcious act? sure if you force yourself to stop breathing eventually your body will shut down and force you to breathe but you are also capable of taking control of your breaths, determine their length, frequency, potency sleep is the same learn to control it if those 2-4 hours are undesired, while waiting for your body to wrestle control back from you, then they are wasted, or worse, time.. unless you argue those 2-4 hours are actually meditation time for you

byuu 11y ago
When I do lie down, it's because I'm too mentally fatigued to continue working. It's usually 13-16 hours after having woken up (or as little as 6-8 hours if I am working intensely the entire time), so this is normal. The 2-4 hours are just wasted time where my mind goes over having a million fake "conversations" in my head, recalling past traumatic events and regretting my actions then, and if I'm lucky, thinking about a problem I've been trying to solve during the day. Can't really count it as meditation because my mind is racing at 100 miles an hour the entire time. I can always tell when I'm getting close to falling asleep because my thoughts become more and more erratic, almost dream-like in their absurdity. Sometimes I'll snap out of that state and realize what was happening. I'd love to learn how to control it, though. That'd be super.
- justifier 11y ago
  I'd love to learn how to control it, though. That'd be super. i'm going to interpret this as you asking for suggested techniques for controlling your sleep i'm happy to offer some methods i use: slow down, create a sleep space you can trust, breathe, visualise, learn i'm writing up a fuller explanation that i will post as a reply to this comment either later today or maybe midday tomorrow for you, or posterity
- mercer 11y ago
  Have you tried actual meditation? I also have sleep problems because my mind just won't quiet down. Few things have helped as well as meditation before bedtime. I've also read that the frequent habit of meditation (which sadly I've not mastered yet) in general has the long-term effect of being able to control this 'inner monologue' permanently. It also really helps just throughout the day. Quite regularly my brain just goes into overdrive and by late afternoon it's all over the place. Every single time that I force myself to sit and meditate (I use the Headspace app, usually 20 min sessions), my mind is significantly calmer and I feel a sudden boost in energy. Kind of like pressing a reset button. The same goes for mornings. I often can't really get started until 11:00 or 12:00, but those few times where I manage to meditate first thing, I'm able to snap out of the 'coffee/internet' ritual with very little effort. Perhaps it's extra effective for me because I get overstimulated and/or over-obsessed much quicker than most people, but I'm still amazed at how effective something as simple as sitting and observing my thoughts as they pass actually is. In my opinion, if it's even half as effective for the rest of the population as it is for me, it should be as normal as brushing your teeth twice a day (and it often has been compared to brushing).

rdtsc 11y ago

Random things I did that I think worked: 1) Going for a walk in a park. Cool fresh outside air helps reset the brain. 2) Read something, preferably a book. Not on a phone or tablet. Not too interesting which will keep you awake wanting to finish it "Understanding The Linux Kernel", for example does wonders for me. 3) Watch a documentary about nature or space. Something not too intense or crazy.

byuu 11y ago
Thanks for your advice! For 1, that's a great idea and I really need the exercise. But it's ruled out for 4 months of the year due to northern temperatures. I have a very low tolerance for cold, so if there's snow outside, it's extremely unpleasant, tears up my throat, paradoxically burns my hands and ears, etc. Can overdress to compensate, but even then it's still unpleasant and slippery outside. For 2, I'd love to read more in general. But I have absolutely no imagination, and get lost in side thoughts. I'll find out after having read six pages that I had zoned out and don't remember a single thing I read. Maybe that's okay if I'm just trying to fall asleep. I think I'll give this suggestion a try with my "Making Sense of Japanese" book ;) For 3, won't the blue light from the TV cause someone to stay awake? I heard it disrupts the body's production of melatonin, because it think it's daylight.
- RogtamBar 11y ago
  >For 1, that's a great idea and I really need the exercise. But it's ruled out for 4 months of the year due to northern temperatures. There's stationary bikes, gyms, etc. Plus, not going outside is an attitude issue. I've gone running a few times in winter, despite having Raynaud's syndrome (or something similar, my extremities tend towards ambient temperature unless I'm jogging or doing something equally strenuous). It's doable. Not pleasant and requires some thought and care though. >For 3, won't the blue light from the TV cause someone to stay awake? I Any bright screen makes falling asleep harder, fools the body into thinking it's daylight. Only something like Kindle with very gentle light doesn't make going to sleep harder.

randycupertino 11y ago

Have you tried trazodone for sleeping? That stuff knocks me out. I take adderall for ADHD and used to have insomnia too until my doc prescribed me trazodone. Now I fall asleep in 10 minutes and get the best sleep of my life. http://www.crazymeds.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Meds/Desyrel http://www.crazymeds.us/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Meds/Desyrel

byuu 11y ago
I haven't. Heard very bad things about prescription sleep aids not giving you proper REM sleep cycles, and being very habit forming (makes things worse when you get off or you build up a tolerance), and causing nasty side effects. That sounds nice, though. The Adderall would probably help a lot too, but I don't seem to have any luck at all with doctors being open to letting me try things out to see if they'd benefit me or not. The last time I went to one for sleep issues, she tried to push an SSRI (Zoloft) on me >_>
- randycupertino 11y ago
  Maybe try asking your doctor about Trazodone. It is so old school that it doesn't have much of a stigma unlike the newer drugs out there that have bad reps for being addictive or encouraging drug seekers wit recreational uses (benzos, narcs, beta blockers) it's sort of an old mellow antidepressant that has sleep benefits. Doesn't get abused much because literally all it does is make people sleepy. I'm on a super low dose- 25mcg and it knocks me out with really good quality sleep. I think my "anxious brain" was what was keeping me up and when trazodone first came on the scene it was shown to help with anxiety. Good luck with everything.