4 ms·

> "that's why you need to take the market out of it and have single payer." It's a consistent argument only if you believe that you'd be better off with single

> "that's why you need to take the market out of it and have single payer." It's a consistent argument only if you believe that you'd be better off with single payer. No, it's a consistent argument for those who think beyond themselves; it's good for society as a whole. One doesn't have to believe one personally benefits, that's now how liberals work. > A good market would be one where you paid your doctor A good market for healthcare is one where it isn't a market, but a social good provided to everyone, like other civilized countries do. The market is not the correct answer to every question of how to distribute goods and services.

sageikosa 11y ago
No, but it is the only answer to how much those services cost, which is a necessary question to answer if you intend to apply accounting to resource allocation and consumption.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  > but it is the only answer to how much those services cost No it isn't; and that which can be asserted without evidence, can be refuted without it as well.
  - sageikosa 11y ago
    You assertion assumes ignorance as a starting point. Be enlightened: http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Price http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Price
    - gnaritas 11y ago
      The Austrian school, no thanks, that school of thought hasn't been mainstream since the 30's, for good reason; it's wrong. Here, you be enlightened and catch up to the modern world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_economics
novalis78 11y ago
other "socialist" civilized countries, you know, like the ones that regularly innovate and push the boundaries of science and attract millions of people each year because of a higher standard of living and less taxes. oh, wait... The "market" is just a synonym for individuals co-operating together for their mutual benefit. The "public" option is one where a faceless bureaucracy with a monopoly on power steps in and dictates terms. Disclaimer: I have lived decades with a single payer system and left in part because of it.
- popmystack 11y ago
  >I have lived decades with a single payer system and left in part because of it. No you didn't.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  > like the ones that regularly innovate and push the boundaries of science and attract millions of people each year because of a higher standard of living and less taxes. oh, wait... Propaganda Americans seem always believe, as if the rest of the world were a third world country. The Nordic countries top the world standard of living, America, not so much. Quality of life, the U.S. doesn't even break the top 10. The U.S. isn't a shining city on a hill, it's a waning rotten empire slowly sinking back into 3rd world status for its average citizen. > The "market" is just a synonym for individuals co-operating together for their mutual benefit. That's a nice theory, it's just not true in the real world. > I have lived decades with a single payer system and left in part because of it. And which country would that be?

sageikosa 11y ago

No, but it is the only answer to how much those services cost, which is a necessary question to answer if you intend to apply accounting to resource allocation and consumption.

gnaritas 11y ago
> but it is the only answer to how much those services cost No it isn't; and that which can be asserted without evidence, can be refuted without it as well.
- sageikosa 11y ago
  You assertion assumes ignorance as a starting point. Be enlightened: http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Price http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Price
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    The Austrian school, no thanks, that school of thought hasn't been mainstream since the 30's, for good reason; it's wrong. Here, you be enlightened and catch up to the modern world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_economics

novalis78 11y ago

other "socialist" civilized countries, you know, like the ones that regularly innovate and push the boundaries of science and attract millions of people each year because of a higher standard of living and less taxes. oh, wait... The "market" is just a synonym for individuals co-operating together for their mutual benefit. The "public" option is one where a faceless bureaucracy with a monopoly on power steps in and dictates terms. Disclaimer: I have lived decades with a single payer system and left in part because of it.

popmystack 11y ago
>I have lived decades with a single payer system and left in part because of it. No you didn't.
gnaritas 11y ago
> like the ones that regularly innovate and push the boundaries of science and attract millions of people each year because of a higher standard of living and less taxes. oh, wait... Propaganda Americans seem always believe, as if the rest of the world were a third world country. The Nordic countries top the world standard of living, America, not so much. Quality of life, the U.S. doesn't even break the top 10. The U.S. isn't a shining city on a hill, it's a waning rotten empire slowly sinking back into 3rd world status for its average citizen. > The "market" is just a synonym for individuals co-operating together for their mutual benefit. That's a nice theory, it's just not true in the real world. > I have lived decades with a single payer system and left in part because of it. And which country would that be?