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No, this isn't an example of casual racism. First, if it was "Honest Steve", I assume you wouldn't see it as racist? Or "Honest Mary", the same? If so, how abo
by brighteyes 11y ago
No, this isn't an example of casual racism.
First, if it was "Honest Steve", I assume you wouldn't see it as racist? Or "Honest Mary", the same? If so, how about "Honest Vinnie"? Is it only when the name suggests a specific ethnic or racial group that it feels racist to you? Only certain such groups?
That actually reveals a bigger problem. If "Steve" and "Mary" are 'normal' names, but "Achmed" (and maybe "Vinnie") is 'weird'/'noticeable' to you, then that's a hidden assumption that "normal" = "white middle class American". That's not good.
The second major issue is that there's a subtext to this joke. The joke is that no one in the US would call a new CA "Honest Achmed", precisely because it looks... odd. In other words, the joke is on the people that find it odd - including the same people that think it might be a racist joke. That it feels 'odd' is wrong; it shouldn't. But in our society, it does feel odd. That's not the joke being racist - that's society being biased. When you call the joke racist, you're completely missing the point, and shooting the messenger.
Am I saying stuff like this can never be racist? Of course not. It could easily be. If a TV show always picks a black person for the "random criminal of the week", that's racist. Likewise, if every time we needed a random name of "new CA" it was an Arab-sounding one, that would be racist. In other words, the pattern matters. When a TV show or a recurring joke constantly focuses on one group, for no reason, that's very possibly wrong.
But of course, we don't constantly use Arab names for "new CA" jokes. There isn't such a pattern. This is just a one-off joke. One that actually makes fun of the racism you're worried about.
Worrying about racism is a good thing. But seeing racism where it isn't is not, it's the opposite.
- jheriko 11y agoi'm not american. i'm not entirely comfortable that this bothers me given the seemingly innocent intent either... but it does. the joke is as much on it being 'honest' as it is 'achmed' from my perspective... and thats a bit off.
- caf 11y agoI disagree completely. Context matters - and this context, of technologists discussing the security posture of a web browser, is heavily dominated by your "white middle class American". "Honest Steve" might well have racist overtones in a different context, one where Steve can be used as a shorthand for a stereotypical outsider. And "Honest Achmed" wouldn't on, say, the streets of Cairo. I'm not shooting the messenger, because I'm not shooting anybody. Calling out casual racism as I see it should not be construed as a personal attack on the speaker, because it is both unintentional and so pervasive. That's not the joke being racist - that's society being biased. When you call the joke racist, you're completely missing the point, and shooting the messenger. So are Irish Jokes are just a clever way of pointing out ingrained societal racism, too? I don't think so.