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No, even then they really don't, do the math. 300M people, $2T total federal budget. Everyone is so obsessed with discussing whether or not this would create d

No, even then they really don't, do the math. 300M people, $2T total federal budget. Everyone is so obsessed with discussing whether or not this would create disincentives to work that the gigantic cost is barely mentionned. The moral ground has moved so far left that even the right-wing doesn't dare critic it as a massive forced, wealth redistribution scheme. Instead they fixate on barely relevant questions, such as whether it makes people lazy, or if the money is "deserved". This drives me nuts. The problem is never giving money to people. Technological progress has the same effect. The problem is taking it away from others!

toomuchtodo 11y ago
> This drives me nuts. The problem is never giving money to people. Technological progress has the same effect. The problem is taking it away from others! If automation is driving people out of work, I need not take anything from you to give to others. Quite the contrary, you yourself will have nothing of value to "take" in the long term. What technology giveth, it taketh away.
- murbard2 11y ago
  I wasn't trying to make a point about the disruptive effect of technology. My point is that people getting free money is functionally equivalent to them having access to more goods and services, which is something technology does (in the medium run) and that no one seriously worries about.
pc86 11y ago
> The moral ground has moved so far left that even the right-wing doesn't dare critic it as a massive forced, wealth redistribution scheme. BI that replaces all social welfare programs is about as libertarian as you can get without veering into an anarcho-capitalist wet dream hellscape.
- murbard2 11y ago
  If I include things like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Education, etc... all social welfare programs add up to maybe $1.5T a year. There are about 320M people in the US. Let's leave out anyone under 18 (23%) that leaves us with about 250M people. Assume that somehow, all of these welfare programs are dismantled to be replaced by a BI. It's totally politically unfeasible, but let's imagine it happens. That leaves $1.5T to be distributed yearly among 250M people, which comes to about $500 a month. That's as a replacement of all medical aid, all social security, all public schooling, etc... Proponents of BI cite higher numbers, and political reality means many of these programs will stay. This suggests that BI will not come about without a dramatic increase in taxation.

toomuchtodo 11y ago

> This drives me nuts. The problem is never giving money to people. Technological progress has the same effect. The problem is taking it away from others! If automation is driving people out of work, I need not take anything from you to give to others. Quite the contrary, you yourself will have nothing of value to "take" in the long term. What technology giveth, it taketh away.

murbard2 11y ago
I wasn't trying to make a point about the disruptive effect of technology. My point is that people getting free money is functionally equivalent to them having access to more goods and services, which is something technology does (in the medium run) and that no one seriously worries about.

pc86 11y ago

> The moral ground has moved so far left that even the right-wing doesn't dare critic it as a massive forced, wealth redistribution scheme. BI that replaces all social welfare programs is about as libertarian as you can get without veering into an anarcho-capitalist wet dream hellscape.

murbard2 11y ago
If I include things like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Education, etc... all social welfare programs add up to maybe $1.5T a year. There are about 320M people in the US. Let's leave out anyone under 18 (23%) that leaves us with about 250M people. Assume that somehow, all of these welfare programs are dismantled to be replaced by a BI. It's totally politically unfeasible, but let's imagine it happens. That leaves $1.5T to be distributed yearly among 250M people, which comes to about $500 a month. That's as a replacement of all medical aid, all social security, all public schooling, etc... Proponents of BI cite higher numbers, and political reality means many of these programs will stay. This suggests that BI will not come about without a dramatic increase in taxation.