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I think there are 2 types of economic inequality: Person A has more wealth that average, because he or she created a lot more wealth than the average person ca

I think there are 2 types of economic inequality: Person A has more wealth that average, because he or she created a lot more wealth than the average person can create. This is great, startups are one way to do it, let there be more startups! Person B has more wealth than average because he or she stole a lot more wealth than the average person can create. This is terrible, and must be stopped! The main issue comes from the details involved in creating or stealing said wealth. Do CEOs create or steal wealth? Probably both. OK, what's the ratio. You can't tell.

ebola1717 11y ago
Also, Person C who has more wealth than average because his/her parents or ancestors created the wealth? And Person D who has created more wealth than the average person, but only because they started out as a Person C. Edit: Obviously, I'm not suggesting that there should be no wealth inheritance. But economic inequality can happen in a way that is neither meritocratic nor malicious. And there's tons we can do that recognizes this issue, without banning inheritance (scholarships, after-school programs, etc).
- PKop 11y ago
  Isn't that an argument to allow the existence of "Persons C" : that they end up creating "Persons D"? (A wealth creator at a level higher than what would otherwise exist) Or we should take from Persons C's parents who made good decisions and not allow them to pass on their success to their children, thus eliminating the benefits of the wealth created by C's and D's ?
- grondilu 11y ago
  > Person C who has more wealth than average because his/her parents or ancestors created the wealth? Do you think it's wrong for parents to give things to their children? Do you think it should not be allowed to let them ensure that their children will never have to worry about money? I personally don't.
  - jheriko 11y ago
    i'd even go as far as to say that it is a goal for a great many people in life, and the standard position is that inheritance is a good thing, and that taxing it stinks... ...except perhaps if its very rich people you can not equate with, so you don't see the harm of taking 1-99% of their unfathomable riches and leaving them still having a fortune beyond your dreams.
    - grondilu 11y ago
      > if its very rich people you can not equate with, oh, so you mean stealing is OK as long as it's from people you're jealous of? The problem I have with that is that it's a foot in the door[1]. You begin with taking from ultra-rich people, expecting me to be ok with that. And then you take from slightly less rich people, and then even less rich and so on until you claim it's ok to take from anyone who's less poor than you. So no, I don't want to let envious poor people rob rich people, no matter how rich they are. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-in-the-door_technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-in-the-door_technique
      - jheriko 11y ago
        i don't agree with that line of thinking... i'm just saying that this is what i perceive in others.
bobby_9x 11y ago
"This is terrible, and must be stopped!" Grand theft is already a crime, how else do you 'steal wealth'?? "Do CEOs create or steal wealth?" CEOs don't 'steal' wealth. They are paid to do a job that pretty much nobody can actually do, which is why they are paid so well. If I know a good CEO can make my company $30 million dollars, I have no problem paying him $5 million/year. This is like saying a general has no purpose in the military because they aren't actually fighting.
- edanm 11y ago
  Your argument is uncharitable. You might not agree with them, but there are arguments about how wealthy people "steal wealth". They're not usually focused on CEOs specifically, but the main argument is that wealthy people use their wealth to give them political influence, which helps them pass laws that "unfairly" benefits them. (Or, if you don't want to bring fairness and morality, we can just say that wealthy people pass laws that make it more likely for them to remain wealthy, regardless of whether other people are impacted badly by this).
  - bobby_9x 11y ago
    "They're not usually focused on CEOs specifically, but the main argument is that wealthy people use their wealth to give them political influence, which helps them pass laws that "unfairly" benefits them. (Or, if you don't want to bring fairness and morality, we can just say that wealthy people pass laws that make it more likely for them to remain wealthy, regardless of whether other people are impacted badly by this)." This is a straw man, not an argument. Poor people have political influence too. With the popularity of Twitter and social networks, everyone does. If you don't like what a politician is doing, go out on Twitter and start a #hashtag campaign against them. It has gotten many political figures, CEOs, and even regular employees fired.
- JBiserkov 11y ago
  >how else do you 'steal wealth' For example by colluding with your competitors not to poach each-other's employees, thereby lowering your employees salaries, and stealing wealth directly from your employees. That's exactly what CEOs do. Even the Holy Steve Jobs himself.
r00fus 11y ago
Saying Person B "stole" the wealth is not exactly helpful. I'd say just that Person B inherited or otherwise did not personally create the wealth that they currently own. You can tell an organization's priorities by it's finances. For a country, it's main revenue stream is taxation. Fix the unequal taxation (i.e. capital and inherited/transferred wealth being taxed at a lower rate that earned profits & direct work) and you will begin to repair wealth inequality.

ebola1717 11y ago

Also, Person C who has more wealth than average because his/her parents or ancestors created the wealth? And Person D who has created more wealth than the average person, but only because they started out as a Person C. Edit: Obviously, I'm not suggesting that there should be no wealth inheritance. But economic inequality can happen in a way that is neither meritocratic nor malicious. And there's tons we can do that recognizes this issue, without banning inheritance (scholarships, after-school programs, etc).

PKop 11y ago
Isn't that an argument to allow the existence of "Persons C" : that they end up creating "Persons D"? (A wealth creator at a level higher than what would otherwise exist) Or we should take from Persons C's parents who made good decisions and not allow them to pass on their success to their children, thus eliminating the benefits of the wealth created by C's and D's ?
grondilu 11y ago
> Person C who has more wealth than average because his/her parents or ancestors created the wealth? Do you think it's wrong for parents to give things to their children? Do you think it should not be allowed to let them ensure that their children will never have to worry about money? I personally don't.
- jheriko 11y ago
  i'd even go as far as to say that it is a goal for a great many people in life, and the standard position is that inheritance is a good thing, and that taxing it stinks... ...except perhaps if its very rich people you can not equate with, so you don't see the harm of taking 1-99% of their unfathomable riches and leaving them still having a fortune beyond your dreams.
  - grondilu 11y ago
    > if its very rich people you can not equate with, oh, so you mean stealing is OK as long as it's from people you're jealous of? The problem I have with that is that it's a foot in the door[1]. You begin with taking from ultra-rich people, expecting me to be ok with that. And then you take from slightly less rich people, and then even less rich and so on until you claim it's ok to take from anyone who's less poor than you. So no, I don't want to let envious poor people rob rich people, no matter how rich they are. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-in-the-door_technique https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-in-the-door_technique
    - jheriko 11y ago
      i don't agree with that line of thinking... i'm just saying that this is what i perceive in others.

bobby_9x 11y ago

"This is terrible, and must be stopped!" Grand theft is already a crime, how else do you 'steal wealth'?? "Do CEOs create or steal wealth?" CEOs don't 'steal' wealth. They are paid to do a job that pretty much nobody can actually do, which is why they are paid so well. If I know a good CEO can make my company $30 million dollars, I have no problem paying him $5 million/year. This is like saying a general has no purpose in the military because they aren't actually fighting.

edanm 11y ago
Your argument is uncharitable. You might not agree with them, but there are arguments about how wealthy people "steal wealth". They're not usually focused on CEOs specifically, but the main argument is that wealthy people use their wealth to give them political influence, which helps them pass laws that "unfairly" benefits them. (Or, if you don't want to bring fairness and morality, we can just say that wealthy people pass laws that make it more likely for them to remain wealthy, regardless of whether other people are impacted badly by this).
- bobby_9x 11y ago
  "They're not usually focused on CEOs specifically, but the main argument is that wealthy people use their wealth to give them political influence, which helps them pass laws that "unfairly" benefits them. (Or, if you don't want to bring fairness and morality, we can just say that wealthy people pass laws that make it more likely for them to remain wealthy, regardless of whether other people are impacted badly by this)." This is a straw man, not an argument. Poor people have political influence too. With the popularity of Twitter and social networks, everyone does. If you don't like what a politician is doing, go out on Twitter and start a #hashtag campaign against them. It has gotten many political figures, CEOs, and even regular employees fired.
JBiserkov 11y ago
>how else do you 'steal wealth' For example by colluding with your competitors not to poach each-other's employees, thereby lowering your employees salaries, and stealing wealth directly from your employees. That's exactly what CEOs do. Even the Holy Steve Jobs himself.

r00fus 11y ago

Saying Person B "stole" the wealth is not exactly helpful. I'd say just that Person B inherited or otherwise did not personally create the wealth that they currently own. You can tell an organization's priorities by it's finances. For a country, it's main revenue stream is taxation. Fix the unequal taxation (i.e. capital and inherited/transferred wealth being taxed at a lower rate that earned profits & direct work) and you will begin to repair wealth inequality.