4 ms·

Except the $99 is per year, not a one-time cost. Apple really needs to figure out some kind of open development plan for iPad. I'd argue it's not so important

Except the $99 is per year, not a one-time cost. Apple really needs to figure out some kind of open development plan for iPad. I'd argue it's not so important for the iPhone, but for the iPad, I think it may be critical...

jacquesm 17y ago
It's the new subscription model, subscribe to rights that you should have by default. Such as the ability to program the computer that you just bought. Early computers all came with built in programming capability, then we lost some of that and then open source happened and suddenly it seemed ridiculous to ask developers money to support your platform. It's like charging the guys that sweep your street toll. Be happy that people want to develop for your platform and make it as easy as possible for them. Things like this will incrementally push developers away from closed platforms. Why on earth would anybody pay a subscription to a toolchain. Open source tools are abundant and free, run on practically any piece of hardware from small embedded controllers all the way to supercomputers. When switching from a windows environment to open source for my main dev box a couple of years ago, I was worried about not being able to bring my tools along. Now I feel completely unable to do anything useful on a machine that does not come with at least a full complement of unix tools. I can see a device like the ipad as a target, but if development is going to be limited to apple-only then the subscription fee is the smaller part (we do have an imac here, but I doubt that everybody that wants to develop for the pad has a mac ready to go). So for some the cost is significantly higher than just the subscription to the SDK. I prefer software without a built in expiry date anyway.
- cpr 17y ago
  The apps you built will never expire. (I know that from personal experience; we let our iPhone dev certificate expire for a while due to lack of attention, but our apps never failed to work.) The SDK you've downloaded will never expire. Yes, the ability to sign apps will disappear, but you could run them in unsigned debug mode forever.
  - jacquesm 17y ago
    So, effectively you're on the hook for as long as you decide to support your product.
    - cpr 17y ago
      Sure thing! I don't find it offensive to pay $99/year to Apple in exchange for them maintaining their developer portal and tools. They invest tens of millions in the toolchain alone every year, and, I'm even underwriting a lot of great LLVM/clang open source development with my fee...
      - wizard_2 17y ago
        They also take 30% of every app you sell. The fact I bought doodle jump underwrote the developer tools. As of this year they are the single biggest mobile company due to their app and phone sales. The $100 a developer isn't much of a profit for them as it is a means to control access.
        cpr 17y ago
        I'm sorry, but I don't think 30% is an unreasonable cut. When I sell my current indie Mac/Win software through resellers, I have to give them at least 25% to make it worth their while.
        jacquesm 17y ago
        > I'm sorry, but I don't think 30% is an unreasonable cut. That's good for you. Did you negotiate with Apple? Or did you find that since there can not be any competition that it was 30% or forget it? > When I sell my current indie Mac/Win software through resellers, I have to give them at least 25% to make it worth their while. Ah, but the interesting bit here is that apparently there you can negotiate.
        cpr 17y ago
- GHFigs 17y ago
  ...rights that you should have by default. Such as the ability to program the computer that you just bought. Do you feel this applies equally to everything that "computes" (including your cable box, your microwave, your car, your dumbphone etc.) or is there some threshold at which that expectation begins?
  - jacquesm 17y ago
    I draw the line at appliances that are 'single use' versus appliances that are dual-to-universal uses. For instance the 'slug' is a nice example of such a device, it is far more useful 'open' than it ever was closed.
    - wizard_2 17y ago
      Slug?
      - brandon 17y ago
        I believe he means the Linksys NSLU NAS box. The thing is, modding that device isn't much different from jailbreaking your iPhone. If you're okay with invalidating the warrantee on the slug, then I don't understand why you'd complain about the iPhone/Pad model since it's largely the same: Keep Out!
        jacquesm 17y ago
        Absolutely, I was using the slug as an example of what hardware is capable of in the hands of competent programmers. The fact that you have to void the warranty or 'jailbreak' it is really sad.
        deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
        orangecat 17y ago
        f you're okay with invalidating the warrantee on the slug, then I don't understand why you'd complain about the iPhone/Pad model It's not a question of voiding the warranty; Apple is on record saying that jailbreaking is and should be a criminal act.
GHFigs 17y ago
Why do you say that?

jacquesm 17y ago

It's the new subscription model, subscribe to rights that you should have by default. Such as the ability to program the computer that you just bought. Early computers all came with built in programming capability, then we lost some of that and then open source happened and suddenly it seemed ridiculous to ask developers money to support your platform. It's like charging the guys that sweep your street toll. Be happy that people want to develop for your platform and make it as easy as possible for them. Things like this will incrementally push developers away from closed platforms. Why on earth would anybody pay a subscription to a toolchain. Open source tools are abundant and free, run on practically any piece of hardware from small embedded controllers all the way to supercomputers. When switching from a windows environment to open source for my main dev box a couple of years ago, I was worried about not being able to bring my tools along. Now I feel completely unable to do anything useful on a machine that does not come with at least a full complement of unix tools. I can see a device like the ipad as a target, but if development is going to be limited to apple-only then the subscription fee is the smaller part (we do have an imac here, but I doubt that everybody that wants to develop for the pad has a mac ready to go). So for some the cost is significantly higher than just the subscription to the SDK. I prefer software without a built in expiry date anyway.

cpr 17y ago
The apps you built will never expire. (I know that from personal experience; we let our iPhone dev certificate expire for a while due to lack of attention, but our apps never failed to work.) The SDK you've downloaded will never expire. Yes, the ability to sign apps will disappear, but you could run them in unsigned debug mode forever.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  So, effectively you're on the hook for as long as you decide to support your product.
  - cpr 17y ago
    Sure thing! I don't find it offensive to pay $99/year to Apple in exchange for them maintaining their developer portal and tools. They invest tens of millions in the toolchain alone every year, and, I'm even underwriting a lot of great LLVM/clang open source development with my fee...
    - wizard_2 17y ago
      They also take 30% of every app you sell. The fact I bought doodle jump underwrote the developer tools. As of this year they are the single biggest mobile company due to their app and phone sales. The $100 a developer isn't much of a profit for them as it is a means to control access.
      - cpr 17y ago
        I'm sorry, but I don't think 30% is an unreasonable cut. When I sell my current indie Mac/Win software through resellers, I have to give them at least 25% to make it worth their while.
        jacquesm 17y ago
        > I'm sorry, but I don't think 30% is an unreasonable cut. That's good for you. Did you negotiate with Apple? Or did you find that since there can not be any competition that it was 30% or forget it? > When I sell my current indie Mac/Win software through resellers, I have to give them at least 25% to make it worth their while. Ah, but the interesting bit here is that apparently there you can negotiate.
        cpr 17y ago
GHFigs 17y ago
...rights that you should have by default. Such as the ability to program the computer that you just bought. Do you feel this applies equally to everything that "computes" (including your cable box, your microwave, your car, your dumbphone etc.) or is there some threshold at which that expectation begins?
- jacquesm 17y ago
  I draw the line at appliances that are 'single use' versus appliances that are dual-to-universal uses. For instance the 'slug' is a nice example of such a device, it is far more useful 'open' than it ever was closed.
  - wizard_2 17y ago
    Slug?
    - brandon 17y ago
      I believe he means the Linksys NSLU NAS box. The thing is, modding that device isn't much different from jailbreaking your iPhone. If you're okay with invalidating the warrantee on the slug, then I don't understand why you'd complain about the iPhone/Pad model since it's largely the same: Keep Out!
      - jacquesm 17y ago
        Absolutely, I was using the slug as an example of what hardware is capable of in the hands of competent programmers. The fact that you have to void the warranty or 'jailbreak' it is really sad.
      - deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
      - orangecat 17y ago
        f you're okay with invalidating the warrantee on the slug, then I don't understand why you'd complain about the iPhone/Pad model It's not a question of voiding the warranty; Apple is on record saying that jailbreaking is and should be a criminal act.

GHFigs 17y ago

Why do you say that?