5 ms·

This is what the Extensible Web Manifesto is -- an agreement from browser vendors to build in low-level primitives so that things can be implemented in user spa

by spicyj 11y ago

This is what the Extensible Web Manifesto is -- an agreement from browser vendors to build in low-level primitives so that things can be implemented in user space: https://www.w3.org/community/nextweb/2013/06/11/the-extensible-web-manifesto/ https://www.w3.org/community/nextweb/2013/06/11/the-extensib... (Of course, higher-level APIs still get added.)

lomnakkus 11y ago
Thanks for pointing this out. I (as I'm sure many others) was not even aware that such a thing existed. Having said that... - Is that the actual manifesto? I couldn't find any link to any more detailed document, but maybe it's a browser/adblock thing. - If yes, then... I agree with nearly all of it (having just skimmed it), but it seems a bit... bland and fluffy (as opposed to concrete). That's not exactly what I was imagining with my ever-so-specific "API/thing" nomenclature :) I was thinking more along the lines of a "universal bytecode for web", but a) not just for code, and b) one that actually works. Maybe Java 25 will get us there, who knows :)
- magicalist 11y ago
  > Is that the actual manifesto? No. Actual manifesto: https://extensiblewebmanifesto.org/ https://extensiblewebmanifesto.org/
- spicyj 11y ago
  I guess this is the real thing: https://github.com/extensibleweb/manifesto/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/extensibleweb/manifesto/blob/master/READM... Perhaps WebAssembly is close to what you think of as a "universal bytecode"?
  - lomnakkus 11y ago
    That's a little closer, but AFAICT it's just a bunch of added "signatories" -- again from a skim-read. In the long run, WebAssembly may be it. As of the promised-1.0 it's just a way/excuse to run C/C++ code on the browser's VM with some GL/Canvas mixed in there. I mean, I understand marketing a FPS-game-in-the-browser as the be-all and end-all thing, but that's not my market or end game :). It'll be really interesting to see what happens with WebAssembly 1.1, 1.2, 2.x... Will they be the ones to surmount the insurountable obstacles? (I've been around for quite a long time in the industry, so... having learned things and just how much the last 20% takes, I tend to temper my optimism quite a bit.)
    - magicalist 11y ago
      That is it (and there's quite a bit of thought in those bullet points), but not sure what you're looking for. It's a manifesto for how to approach writing standards for the web, not a standard itself.
      - lomnakkus 11y ago
        That's fair enough, but I guess I just don't think there's enough... commitment in that? I appreciate the point about meta-standards vs. standards. I think I'm more looking for concrete technical standards (to obviate all others before them![1]) than meta-standards. The web has advanced significantly in the last few years, perhaps even as a result of this meta-standard, but ultimately I'm skeptical that competition between entities that don't have the same goal will "succeed"[2] in any objective sense. The point me be a a bit muddled at this point, but think "principal agent problem". [1] Because that always works! (Find your own XKCD) [2] Yeah, I know. Everybody has a different idea of what that means.

by spicyj 11y ago

lomnakkus 11y ago

Thanks for pointing this out. I (as I'm sure many others) was not even aware that such a thing existed. Having said that... - Is that the actual manifesto? I couldn't find any link to any more detailed document, but maybe it's a browser/adblock thing. - If yes, then... I agree with nearly all of it (having just skimmed it), but it seems a bit... bland and fluffy (as opposed to concrete). That's not exactly what I was imagining with my ever-so-specific "API/thing" nomenclature :) I was thinking more along the lines of a "universal bytecode for web", but a) not just for code, and b) one that actually works. Maybe Java 25 will get us there, who knows :)

magicalist 11y ago
> Is that the actual manifesto? No. Actual manifesto: https://extensiblewebmanifesto.org/ https://extensiblewebmanifesto.org/
spicyj 11y ago
I guess this is the real thing: https://github.com/extensibleweb/manifesto/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/extensibleweb/manifesto/blob/master/READM... Perhaps WebAssembly is close to what you think of as a "universal bytecode"?
- lomnakkus 11y ago
  That's a little closer, but AFAICT it's just a bunch of added "signatories" -- again from a skim-read. In the long run, WebAssembly may be it. As of the promised-1.0 it's just a way/excuse to run C/C++ code on the browser's VM with some GL/Canvas mixed in there. I mean, I understand marketing a FPS-game-in-the-browser as the be-all and end-all thing, but that's not my market or end game :). It'll be really interesting to see what happens with WebAssembly 1.1, 1.2, 2.x... Will they be the ones to surmount the insurountable obstacles? (I've been around for quite a long time in the industry, so... having learned things and just how much the last 20% takes, I tend to temper my optimism quite a bit.)
  - magicalist 11y ago
    That is it (and there's quite a bit of thought in those bullet points), but not sure what you're looking for. It's a manifesto for how to approach writing standards for the web, not a standard itself.
    - lomnakkus 11y ago
      That's fair enough, but I guess I just don't think there's enough... commitment in that? I appreciate the point about meta-standards vs. standards. I think I'm more looking for concrete technical standards (to obviate all others before them![1]) than meta-standards. The web has advanced significantly in the last few years, perhaps even as a result of this meta-standard, but ultimately I'm skeptical that competition between entities that don't have the same goal will "succeed"[2] in any objective sense. The point me be a a bit muddled at this point, but think "principal agent problem". [1] Because that always works! (Find your own XKCD) [2] Yeah, I know. Everybody has a different idea of what that means.