5 ms·

It should be noted that per the article, this is for a single project for which the candidate has up to a month to complete. It's not a whole truth to describe

It should be noted that per the article, this is for a single project for which the candidate has up to a month to complete. It's not a whole truth to describe the $25/hr as compensation for a "full month's work". This is also, per the article again, undertaken while one has a job. Not playing sides, just adding context -- I have no affiliation with the company.

tyingq 11y ago
$25 an hour is paltry for this type of work, no matter the duration. The duration of one month is from the article.
jon-wood 11y ago
I can see why companies want to do this sort of thing, since it gives them a decent look at how people really do their job, but it almost entirely rules out people with a life outside of work. I'm already working a more than full time job, and Saturdays are entirely spent looking after our son so that my wife can get some work done. That leaves one full day off, and a few hours each evening, by which I've likely been up since 5am, done a full day's work, got our son off to bed, and cooked a meal. Even if I thought I was likely to produce anything worth submitting, there's no way I want to give up the few hours of time my wife and I get together as a couple for the sake of a glorified job interview. I guess I could take some time off work and treat it as my day job for a week, but then I've given up a decent chunk of my leave allowance in return for a job interview, and the addition of some tax paperwork to my life because I've been doing freelance work.
- jcadam 11y ago
  Yea, I recently turned down an interview with a company that included a similar 'trial' period as part of their hiring process. From now on, any long, drawn-out interview process gets a 'pass' from me. I've had my time wasted too many times (employer suddenly goes dark after the final interview, no communication, no responses to any attempt at contact, etc). In fact, I've given up on my most recent job search after experiencing two of those in a row (need to save my vacation days for an actual vacation at some point). On second thought, I suppose if I were unemployed and desperate I might be willing to put up with an onerous hiring process.
  - lazaroclapp 11y ago
    Or, conversely, if you had very little commitments outside of work, time to regularly hack on side and sufficient interest in the job to say "ok, this month, my side project is going to be for someone else". But the point remains that this puts an uncommon expectation on applicants, one that maybe Automattic can afford to select for, but that would potentially cause untold problems if all employers hired this way.
- brudgers 11y ago
  For at least a few people, interviewing and job hunting will probably eat into their life outside of work regardless of if the company is paying them to complete a contract project or using traditional days full of interviews on site. That said, maybe it's supposed to select against people who are ultimately unlikely to block out the time to go through the screening and hiring process regardless of its form. It's some tens of hours either way.
  - jon-wood 11y ago
    I've got no problem with interviewing and job hunting taking up time outside of work, I expect that to be the case. However companies need to be respectful of that time, and see the difference between a day or two off to interview, and a month's worth of free time. I respect that they at least pay for that time, which softens the blow somewhat, but at least for me the extra money isn't anywhere near as valuable as some free time. I know what burn out feels like, and there's no way I'd risk it for the chance of a job.
    - lazaroclapp 11y ago
      One assumes that it's not a month worth of free time, but a few work-days worth of time distributed over the span of a month. Basically, it's one thing if that trial period takes you 15-20 hrs of paid 'extra' work during the trial month, and a very different one if we are talking, say, 120 hrs of "after work" time. Now, many people will pass on the 15-20 hrs of 'contractor' work as well, but some people will consider it a reasonable deal. The only point at which this becomes a problem is if the industry expectation shifts so that you can only find a good job by performing contract work for a month before knowing if you'll be hired or not. As long as there are options, well... the people who prefer doing algorithmic puzzles will interview at the puzzle-interview companies, the people who prefer doing side-projects will interview at the contractor-then-employee companies, and so on and so forth...
      - brudgers 11y ago
        The example project is a redesign for a single web page. With a month to let ideas percolate, that's likely to be less than 15 hours of work for a person who has made it through portfolio and resume review for a position designing web pages on the employer side and who is still interested in the job after several rounds of interviews on the employee side. To me that seems more pleasant than a couple of days in the airport and hotels to travel cattle class. My take is that if it selects against candidates who view remote employment as just another free lance job, more the better for both sides. Remote employment is not another form of freelance work. The relationship is different.
- fweespeech 11y ago
  I've had multiple companies expect me to take 8+ hours of PTO for a job interview. I ended up taking an entire week to fit in all the interviews and I could easily see myself having filled in the down time in that week with ~20 hours of work while I sat on planes/airports and such. I'm not seeing this as much different and I get paid twice for the twice. I doubt they want more than 40 hours of work out of you in one month while you work full time on a separate job.
georgestephanis 11y ago
Yup, my trial took a grand total of about 20h to complete, spread over three weeks. Mostly weekends. (just as an example)

tyingq 11y ago

$25 an hour is paltry for this type of work, no matter the duration. The duration of one month is from the article.

jon-wood 11y ago

I can see why companies want to do this sort of thing, since it gives them a decent look at how people really do their job, but it almost entirely rules out people with a life outside of work. I'm already working a more than full time job, and Saturdays are entirely spent looking after our son so that my wife can get some work done. That leaves one full day off, and a few hours each evening, by which I've likely been up since 5am, done a full day's work, got our son off to bed, and cooked a meal. Even if I thought I was likely to produce anything worth submitting, there's no way I want to give up the few hours of time my wife and I get together as a couple for the sake of a glorified job interview. I guess I could take some time off work and treat it as my day job for a week, but then I've given up a decent chunk of my leave allowance in return for a job interview, and the addition of some tax paperwork to my life because I've been doing freelance work.

jcadam 11y ago
Yea, I recently turned down an interview with a company that included a similar 'trial' period as part of their hiring process. From now on, any long, drawn-out interview process gets a 'pass' from me. I've had my time wasted too many times (employer suddenly goes dark after the final interview, no communication, no responses to any attempt at contact, etc). In fact, I've given up on my most recent job search after experiencing two of those in a row (need to save my vacation days for an actual vacation at some point). On second thought, I suppose if I were unemployed and desperate I might be willing to put up with an onerous hiring process.
- lazaroclapp 11y ago
  Or, conversely, if you had very little commitments outside of work, time to regularly hack on side and sufficient interest in the job to say "ok, this month, my side project is going to be for someone else". But the point remains that this puts an uncommon expectation on applicants, one that maybe Automattic can afford to select for, but that would potentially cause untold problems if all employers hired this way.
brudgers 11y ago
For at least a few people, interviewing and job hunting will probably eat into their life outside of work regardless of if the company is paying them to complete a contract project or using traditional days full of interviews on site. That said, maybe it's supposed to select against people who are ultimately unlikely to block out the time to go through the screening and hiring process regardless of its form. It's some tens of hours either way.
- jon-wood 11y ago
  I've got no problem with interviewing and job hunting taking up time outside of work, I expect that to be the case. However companies need to be respectful of that time, and see the difference between a day or two off to interview, and a month's worth of free time. I respect that they at least pay for that time, which softens the blow somewhat, but at least for me the extra money isn't anywhere near as valuable as some free time. I know what burn out feels like, and there's no way I'd risk it for the chance of a job.
  - lazaroclapp 11y ago
    One assumes that it's not a month worth of free time, but a few work-days worth of time distributed over the span of a month. Basically, it's one thing if that trial period takes you 15-20 hrs of paid 'extra' work during the trial month, and a very different one if we are talking, say, 120 hrs of "after work" time. Now, many people will pass on the 15-20 hrs of 'contractor' work as well, but some people will consider it a reasonable deal. The only point at which this becomes a problem is if the industry expectation shifts so that you can only find a good job by performing contract work for a month before knowing if you'll be hired or not. As long as there are options, well... the people who prefer doing algorithmic puzzles will interview at the puzzle-interview companies, the people who prefer doing side-projects will interview at the contractor-then-employee companies, and so on and so forth...
    - brudgers 11y ago
      The example project is a redesign for a single web page. With a month to let ideas percolate, that's likely to be less than 15 hours of work for a person who has made it through portfolio and resume review for a position designing web pages on the employer side and who is still interested in the job after several rounds of interviews on the employee side. To me that seems more pleasant than a couple of days in the airport and hotels to travel cattle class. My take is that if it selects against candidates who view remote employment as just another free lance job, more the better for both sides. Remote employment is not another form of freelance work. The relationship is different.
fweespeech 11y ago
I've had multiple companies expect me to take 8+ hours of PTO for a job interview. I ended up taking an entire week to fit in all the interviews and I could easily see myself having filled in the down time in that week with ~20 hours of work while I sat on planes/airports and such. I'm not seeing this as much different and I get paid twice for the twice. I doubt they want more than 40 hours of work out of you in one month while you work full time on a separate job.

georgestephanis 11y ago

Yup, my trial took a grand total of about 20h to complete, spread over three weeks. Mostly weekends. (just as an example)