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Offtopic, but I've always been curious: do people really find trackpoint style mice even remotely usable? Presumably so, since Lenovo still includes them, but p

Offtopic, but I've always been curious: do people really find trackpoint style mice even remotely usable? Presumably so, since Lenovo still includes them, but personal experience makes this baffling. Edit: thanks for the responses. I can definitely see how the trackpoint could be more accurate, but my experience is that the workflow is MUCH slower. As basically a joystick device, you must wait for the pointer to move to the desired location. One could compensate for this by pushing harder, but this results in overshoot of the intended target, which requires compensating with slow, precise reversal movement. The whole process is just very, very tedious in my experience using them. That's what I meant, specifically. How do you trackpoint users manage to get around this?

vetinari 11y ago
It takes getting used to. But once you do, the way back is very difficult. The speed and precision is way better than any trackpad (including Apple's).
noir_lord 11y ago
Yes, I used to find them hugely useful once I got used to it even did graphic design with one and it worked really well (years ago I worked in print and used a cheap Thinkpad on top of the colour machine as the print server/layout tool, it worked surprisingly well - was an r50e iirc).
tertius 11y ago
Oh yes. I have an old Lenovo X200s and a new-ish Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro. The trackpoint is A LOT more * accurate than the pad. And particularly so for business applications like spreadsheets, word processors etc. Also much easier when you're slumped back on a couch. I use it for coding, but then I barely need the mouse. * Now doing things like drawing (even just a polygon in design apps) is easier with a pad.
JoshTriplett 11y ago
Yes, absolutely. I actually have a USB ThinkPad keyboard that includes a trackpoint, and use that when at a desk, in preference to any other mouse or keyboard. With the sensitivity set well, a trackpoint can move the mouse all the way across the screen with a strong push, yet have pixel-accurate precision with a light touch. And it sits on home row, making it trivial to switch between keyboard and mouse without a major hand position change. I only use the touchpad to scroll. Even for that, some people configure the trackpoint to scroll while holding the middle mouse button, but that configuration doesn't work for me as I rely on a functional three-button mouse (middle-click to open a link in a tab, and middle-click to paste in a terminal).
- creshal 11y ago
  > but that configuration doesn't work for me as I rely on a functional three-button mouse (middle-click to open a link in a tab, and middle-click to paste in a terminal). You lose middle-button click only in Windows. The Linux drivers will pass through middle clicks normally, even with wheel emulation enabled.
stephen 11y ago
The trackpoint is the primary reason why I've bought ~5 Thinkpads over the last 15 years.
JanezStupar 11y ago
To the point where I won't use any other laptop but a Thinkpad and where I also own two Thinkpad USB Keyboards. I'd have a Mac long time ago if they would offer a Trackpoint.
binarycrusader 11y ago
Only when I'm in a situation where it's impractical to use a normal mouse; for example, while commuting on the train in the morning. Otherwise, I can't stand them.
creshal 11y ago
I don't really care for the precision, but for me the Trackpoint is easier and faster to use than touchpads. I can keep my hands on the keyboard all the time and don't have to move them down, or take them off to grab a mouse lying several feet away from the home row. I just bump the track point and keep typing. Aiming takes a while to get used to, though, especially in Windows with its useless mouse acceleration settings. Those take far too much tweaking.
rsgoheen 11y ago
Count me in the "yes" camp as well. I've been using ThinkPads off and on since before IBM sold it off, so I'm quite use to it. It's definitely less accurate, but I can do quite a bit while only lifting one finger off the keyboard, which is a big productivity boost, and the biggest argument for having it on your computer. Especially for shorter, simpler movements. I will always reach for another tool (generally a trackball, if I'm at my desk) if I'm trying to do something more accurate or complex.
mikestew 11y ago
I'll be the dissenting voice here: I hate them, and would actively go out of my way to not buy a laptop that has one. I've tried trackpoints going all the way back to the original Toshiba Portegé from the 90s. I owned that one, and it was either trackpoint or an external mouse, so I tried to love it. I've had later laptops foisted upon me that had them. Never could get into 'em. I found them to not be precise, and I believe your use of the word "tedious" is spot on. Always chasing the damned thing around, trying to get it to go exactly where I want. So to each their own, but I'm in the camp that just doesn't get it.
fps 11y ago
In my opinion, they're way better than touchpads. For any serious work I use a full size wireless mouse, but I'm comfortable on a trackpoint, and continuously frustrated using a touchpad. It's important to use the hard grippy eraser head and not the squishy cup head if accuracy is important. I'm stuck using a Macbook Pro at the moment, but I would love to have modern components in my old Thinkpad T400, or even better, the 600E I had in college.
Redoubts 11y ago
>I can definitely see how the trackpoint could be more accurate, but my experience is that the workflow is MUCH slower. Thinkpad trackpoints have a third button, which is good for middle click for me (as well as great scrolling). Touchpads require me to adjust my hand to button+tap or something equally awkward. That's much slower. Plus, your hands never leave the keyboard with a trackpoint. >As basically a joystick device, you must wait for the pointer to move to the desired location In my experience, this is no slower than mouse movement. > One could compensate for this by pushing harder, but this results in overshoot of the intended target, which requires compensating with slow, precise reversal movement. I don't have trouble with fast, precise movement with a trackpoint. > How do you trackpoint users manage to get around this? I really have to turn this around and ask, how do non-mac touchpad users manage to endure the crap they use? I found them far inferior to mice and trackpads for years.

vetinari 11y ago

It takes getting used to. But once you do, the way back is very difficult. The speed and precision is way better than any trackpad (including Apple's).

noir_lord 11y ago

Yes, I used to find them hugely useful once I got used to it even did graphic design with one and it worked really well (years ago I worked in print and used a cheap Thinkpad on top of the colour machine as the print server/layout tool, it worked surprisingly well - was an r50e iirc).

tertius 11y ago

Oh yes. I have an old Lenovo X200s and a new-ish Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro. The trackpoint is A LOT more * accurate than the pad. And particularly so for business applications like spreadsheets, word processors etc. Also much easier when you're slumped back on a couch. I use it for coding, but then I barely need the mouse. * Now doing things like drawing (even just a polygon in design apps) is easier with a pad.

JoshTriplett 11y ago

Yes, absolutely. I actually have a USB ThinkPad keyboard that includes a trackpoint, and use that when at a desk, in preference to any other mouse or keyboard. With the sensitivity set well, a trackpoint can move the mouse all the way across the screen with a strong push, yet have pixel-accurate precision with a light touch. And it sits on home row, making it trivial to switch between keyboard and mouse without a major hand position change. I only use the touchpad to scroll. Even for that, some people configure the trackpoint to scroll while holding the middle mouse button, but that configuration doesn't work for me as I rely on a functional three-button mouse (middle-click to open a link in a tab, and middle-click to paste in a terminal).

creshal 11y ago
> but that configuration doesn't work for me as I rely on a functional three-button mouse (middle-click to open a link in a tab, and middle-click to paste in a terminal). You lose middle-button click only in Windows. The Linux drivers will pass through middle clicks normally, even with wheel emulation enabled.

stephen 11y ago

The trackpoint is the primary reason why I've bought ~5 Thinkpads over the last 15 years.

JanezStupar 11y ago

To the point where I won't use any other laptop but a Thinkpad and where I also own two Thinkpad USB Keyboards. I'd have a Mac long time ago if they would offer a Trackpoint.

binarycrusader 11y ago

Only when I'm in a situation where it's impractical to use a normal mouse; for example, while commuting on the train in the morning. Otherwise, I can't stand them.

creshal 11y ago

I don't really care for the precision, but for me the Trackpoint is easier and faster to use than touchpads. I can keep my hands on the keyboard all the time and don't have to move them down, or take them off to grab a mouse lying several feet away from the home row. I just bump the track point and keep typing. Aiming takes a while to get used to, though, especially in Windows with its useless mouse acceleration settings. Those take far too much tweaking.

rsgoheen 11y ago

Count me in the "yes" camp as well. I've been using ThinkPads off and on since before IBM sold it off, so I'm quite use to it. It's definitely less accurate, but I can do quite a bit while only lifting one finger off the keyboard, which is a big productivity boost, and the biggest argument for having it on your computer. Especially for shorter, simpler movements. I will always reach for another tool (generally a trackball, if I'm at my desk) if I'm trying to do something more accurate or complex.

mikestew 11y ago

I'll be the dissenting voice here: I hate them, and would actively go out of my way to not buy a laptop that has one. I've tried trackpoints going all the way back to the original Toshiba Portegé from the 90s. I owned that one, and it was either trackpoint or an external mouse, so I tried to love it. I've had later laptops foisted upon me that had them. Never could get into 'em. I found them to not be precise, and I believe your use of the word "tedious" is spot on. Always chasing the damned thing around, trying to get it to go exactly where I want. So to each their own, but I'm in the camp that just doesn't get it.

fps 11y ago

In my opinion, they're way better than touchpads. For any serious work I use a full size wireless mouse, but I'm comfortable on a trackpoint, and continuously frustrated using a touchpad. It's important to use the hard grippy eraser head and not the squishy cup head if accuracy is important. I'm stuck using a Macbook Pro at the moment, but I would love to have modern components in my old Thinkpad T400, or even better, the 600E I had in college.

Redoubts 11y ago

>I can definitely see how the trackpoint could be more accurate, but my experience is that the workflow is MUCH slower. Thinkpad trackpoints have a third button, which is good for middle click for me (as well as great scrolling). Touchpads require me to adjust my hand to button+tap or something equally awkward. That's much slower. Plus, your hands never leave the keyboard with a trackpoint. >As basically a joystick device, you must wait for the pointer to move to the desired location In my experience, this is no slower than mouse movement. > One could compensate for this by pushing harder, but this results in overshoot of the intended target, which requires compensating with slow, precise reversal movement. I don't have trouble with fast, precise movement with a trackpoint. > How do you trackpoint users manage to get around this? I really have to turn this around and ask, how do non-mac touchpad users manage to endure the crap they use? I found them far inferior to mice and trackpads for years.