3 ms·

I moved to Linux and it's even better than I expected

13 points by steven 11y ago

commentzorro 11y ago
> No one should ever have to open a command-line window and type “sudo apt-get update” or other such instructions. Hear Hear. Command line support over the phone is a nightmare.
- Piskvorrr 11y ago
  ...or "press Windows key, type 'cmd', press Ctrl+Enter, confirm the dialog, type 'regedit'" - you know the drill ;) OTOH, with a little bit of forethought, command-line support over the phone has been unnecessary for years (screen+x11vnc+autossh+openssh-server). "Just click that icon over there...good. Now I can see both the console and the display;" I'm aware there are such commercial options for any OS - in Linux, this is quite simple to do by yourself.
  - dagw 11y ago
    Unless of course the problem you're trying to fix is a network problem.
    - Piskvorrr 11y ago
      True :) What I've seen (keeping the user systems on LTS Ubuntu releases, with network essentially a dumb pipe to the Internet), my common issue of this type is "ISP endpoint went down, oh well, just powercycle it". In other words, when there was a network problem, access to command line at the workstations was not needed.
  - commentzorro 11y ago
    How do you get past needing to explain to someone how to port forward their comcast/verizon/etc. router to get to that point in the first place?
    - dagw 11y ago
      I'm guessing the idea is you set it up for them one day when you are visiting and then wrap the whole thing up in a script that they can trigger by clicking a nicely labeled icon.
    - Piskvorrr 11y ago
      I avoid it :) I had a lot of control over the HW+SW deployment, hence the software was preinstalled (although I could imagine scripting an on-demand installer as well). With reverse SSH (the workstation connects to a server outside the NAT), no port forwarding is necessary. Although the tunnel-in-tunnel method used introduces additional network overhead and latency, it is acceptable for an occasional remote session (VPNs were considered, but ultimately on-demand userspace tools without a need for permission elevation were chosen), and has performed admirably over a wide variety of connections ;-) Specifically: - the workstation has screen, autossh, openssh-client, openssh-server and x11vnc preinstalled. - there's a (local user-initiated) script, launched via a desktop icon - that opens a GNU Screen session - inside the screen, it autossh-s into a limited account on a jumphost and remote-forwards a (preconfigured) 127/8 address:port back to 127.0.0.1:22 - this makes the workstation's SSH server accessible on the jumphost - (actually, several jumphosts are used - not everything is accessible from everywhere on the Internet, but I've yet to see a case when no jumphost can be contacted) - remote user connects to workstation via SSH to jumphost and thence the forwarded SSH tunnel - localforwards a port for a VNC connection - runs x11vnc at workstation - connects to x11vnc via the localforward - and/or attaches to the GNU Screen Voila, console and desktop access, with file transfer also available. The "remote" part is a single script, based originally on this script for VNC-through-SSH: http://so.piskvor.org/87443/vncssh.sh http://so.piskvor.org/87443/vncssh.sh SSH provides enough security (pubkeys), Autossh reestablishes the connection if needed.
webwanderings 11y ago
> Chromebook sold by various manufacturers. But it comes with more limitations, and requires users to be totally comfortable — I’m not Tell that to the grandma. Believe me, I'm no Google Chrome fan, but Google Chrome OS is what Linux would never be. It is a completely different target audience. Microsoft, and Apple eventually, should be worried (and they are most likely worried - given the number of cheap Windows 10 laptops I have been seeing lately).
- Piskvorrr 11y ago
  The biggest sign of MS worries is the current push for Win10 - aggressive to the extreme, right up to practices that I personally consider malware ("you want that upgrade, and admit that you'll like it. Your 'no' means nothing to us. Here, let's re-enable that Clippylike abomination of GWX.exe; trust us, that's what you actually want.").

13 points by steven 11y ago

> No one should ever have to open a command-line window and type “sudo apt-get update” or other such instructions. Hear Hear. Command line support over the phone is a nightmare.

Piskvorrr 11y ago
...or "press Windows key, type 'cmd', press Ctrl+Enter, confirm the dialog, type 'regedit'" - you know the drill ;) OTOH, with a little bit of forethought, command-line support over the phone has been unnecessary for years (screen+x11vnc+autossh+openssh-server). "Just click that icon over there...good. Now I can see both the console and the display;" I'm aware there are such commercial options for any OS - in Linux, this is quite simple to do by yourself.
- dagw 11y ago
  Unless of course the problem you're trying to fix is a network problem.
  - Piskvorrr 11y ago
    True :) What I've seen (keeping the user systems on LTS Ubuntu releases, with network essentially a dumb pipe to the Internet), my common issue of this type is "ISP endpoint went down, oh well, just powercycle it". In other words, when there was a network problem, access to command line at the workstations was not needed.
- commentzorro 11y ago
  How do you get past needing to explain to someone how to port forward their comcast/verizon/etc. router to get to that point in the first place?
  - dagw 11y ago
    I'm guessing the idea is you set it up for them one day when you are visiting and then wrap the whole thing up in a script that they can trigger by clicking a nicely labeled icon.
  - Piskvorrr 11y ago
    I avoid it :) I had a lot of control over the HW+SW deployment, hence the software was preinstalled (although I could imagine scripting an on-demand installer as well). With reverse SSH (the workstation connects to a server outside the NAT), no port forwarding is necessary. Although the tunnel-in-tunnel method used introduces additional network overhead and latency, it is acceptable for an occasional remote session (VPNs were considered, but ultimately on-demand userspace tools without a need for permission elevation were chosen), and has performed admirably over a wide variety of connections ;-) Specifically: - the workstation has screen, autossh, openssh-client, openssh-server and x11vnc preinstalled. - there's a (local user-initiated) script, launched via a desktop icon - that opens a GNU Screen session - inside the screen, it autossh-s into a limited account on a jumphost and remote-forwards a (preconfigured) 127/8 address:port back to 127.0.0.1:22 - this makes the workstation's SSH server accessible on the jumphost - (actually, several jumphosts are used - not everything is accessible from everywhere on the Internet, but I've yet to see a case when no jumphost can be contacted) - remote user connects to workstation via SSH to jumphost and thence the forwarded SSH tunnel - localforwards a port for a VNC connection - runs x11vnc at workstation - connects to x11vnc via the localforward - and/or attaches to the GNU Screen Voila, console and desktop access, with file transfer also available. The "remote" part is a single script, based originally on this script for VNC-through-SSH: http://so.piskvor.org/87443/vncssh.sh http://so.piskvor.org/87443/vncssh.sh SSH provides enough security (pubkeys), Autossh reestablishes the connection if needed.

webwanderings 11y ago

> Chromebook sold by various manufacturers. But it comes with more limitations, and requires users to be totally comfortable — I’m not Tell that to the grandma. Believe me, I'm no Google Chrome fan, but Google Chrome OS is what Linux would never be. It is a completely different target audience. Microsoft, and Apple eventually, should be worried (and they are most likely worried - given the number of cheap Windows 10 laptops I have been seeing lately).

Piskvorrr 11y ago
The biggest sign of MS worries is the current push for Win10 - aggressive to the extreme, right up to practices that I personally consider malware ("you want that upgrade, and admit that you'll like it. Your 'no' means nothing to us. Here, let's re-enable that Clippylike abomination of GWX.exe; trust us, that's what you actually want.").