6 ms·

I am truly surprised at the lack of enthusiasm on this thread. The Oculus is the FIRST high-fidelity consumer VR experience. And they've got the horsepower of

by aresant 11y ago

I am truly surprised at the lack of enthusiasm on this thread. The Oculus is the FIRST high-fidelity consumer VR experience. And they've got the horsepower of Facebook's cash-machine as their bankroll. Zuck gets this to the degree that I suspect he believes Facebook & VR will be synonymous within a decade (1) Do I wish that Oculus was owned by some benevolent billionaire trickster like OASIS in Ready Player One? Sure, but come off it! This release will mark the starting line of the change in how we interact with computers, how we capture memories, how we tell stories. Oculus + 3D audio + input + eventual tactical is going to completely blur the lines of reality in ways we can't yet imagine. Already in the DK2 I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. . . . Really though, I have had some shocking experiences in the Oculus, starting with the DK1 going off the edge of a rollercoaster and feeling my stomach physically drop. Yes this is a generation 1 product for early adopters. Yes it's going to be expensive to buy, it won't be perfect. But if you're browsing HN because you're a hacker / developer / dreamer you are crazy to discount how substantial this release is (especially if you haven't TRIED it yet!). (1) http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/feee4a1e-63aa-11e5-a28b-50226830d644.html#axzz3wIPsefAw http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/feee4a1e-63aa-11e5-a28b-50226...

strictnein 11y ago
I'm super excited and will be preordering. I think a lot of the "meh" response is the pre-announcement of the announcement aspect of this. With almost no details.
wmeredith 11y ago
How do I try one without buying it? [serious]
- aresant 11y ago
  If you mean the consumer rift you're limited to the big electronics shows for now, I'm sure that they have plans for broader consumer displays that we'll see in the near future. But if you mean Oculus in general the Gear VR is an ok start (and widely available) but I'd recommend (a) Get yourself to one of the many VR meetups that are fairly geographically distributed @ this point http://vr.meetup.com/ http://vr.meetup.com/ (b) Visit www.reddit.com/r/oculus and make a request for a demo in your area if you're in a less populated area.
- soared 11y ago
  Map of people with oculus setups willing to give out demos. [1] https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zOfhcB3uWEbI.k7yXLlv2HcGY&hl=en_US https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zOfhcB3uWEbI.k7yXLl...
Pxtl 11y ago
I think the disappointment is the long and rocky road it has taken to get to this point, allowing multiple competitors (Valve, Sony, Microsoft) to be in position to leap-frog them.
mkozlows 11y ago
I've played with a DK2. It was cool. But reasons not to be super-excited are: 1. Hardware requirements are steep (GTX 970 minimum), so plenty of hardware -- including plenty of hardware that's good for high-end gaming today -- won't be good enough for this. 2. Only Windows support. No compatibility with Linux, SteamOS, or even OSX means that the techie enthusiasts who'd play with it as a tech toy are going to be less interested. 3. But biggest of all: The games aren't there. It's become very clear, both from playing with the DK2, and listening to presentations by Valve and Oculus people, that VR games can't just be regular games with VR bolted on. "Skyrim, but with VR" sounds cool, and makes for a cool five-minute demo, but will just make you sick and be unsatisfying in the long term. VR games need to be designed for VR in a really fundamental way. It's not clear that there are any interesting games that do this, or that there's a lot of effort going toward making games like this. If this were a product that were coming out from Nintendo, I'd be confident that they had a good idea about how to adapt their franchises to take advantage of VR in a really cool way, and that there'd be at least a handful of games that made it an absolute must-have. But from Facebook... well, they're a tech company, not a gaming company, so they're depending on someone else to make the games that will justify this thing. Maybe that'll work in the long term, but right now, it doesn't seem like there's any must-have VR game. Add that all up, and this is a product that won't appeal to most gamers yet, and won't appeal to a lot of tech geeks due to the Windows focus, so... yeah.
- pkroll 11y ago
  Actually, Elder Scrolls Online on the DK2, using Vorpx, is a lot of fun. It's not perfect, but it's much cooler than the game without it, and I've not had any sickness in it.
- aresant 11y ago
  1) Yep. But not bad for a first generation product. Already plenty of guides about building a VR ready computer for <$1000. 2) Only windows. Agreed. But I'm glad they did so they could get one platform dialed in instead of chasing multiple rabbits. For now. 3) Games - copying part of this - do yourself a favor and try with Elite Dangerous or Assetto Corsa. And gaming doesn't scratch the service in terms of application - training, social interaction, SEX, therapy, etc, etc.
rdtsc 11y ago
Played with prototype -- found it was still not as high fidelity to be usable for what we were doing. I am afraid it was hyped enough that we had higher expectations. The roller-coaster demo was cool but it was still like looking through a screen-door (through mosquito net), the square pixels were too distracting.
- harpastum 11y ago
  Which prototype? It sounds like you used a DK1, where the SDE (screen door effect) was very pronounced. The DK1's resolution is 1280×800@60hz. The DK2 is 1920x1080@75hz, and the CV1 (subject of OP) is 2160×1200@90hz. I'm sure the SDE is still perceptible in the CV1 if you look closely enough, but most reports say it is no longer an issue.
  - rdtsc 11y ago
    Yap it was DK1. Well, that's good to know. I didn't follow u after that much. We moved on from that project, and now I am at a different company altogether. But they'll probably revisit it next year or so. It was just an experimental "let's see what we can do with this" thing and we decided to wait till next generation.
vlunkr 11y ago
Am I the only one that's still a little skeptical? I'm sure that it's a great technology and we will see interesting things come out of it, but statements like this > Oculus + 3D audio + input + eventual tactical is going to completely blur the lines of reality in ways we can't yet imagine. kind of just make me roll my eyes. We've been hearing things like that for decades. Is it really going to blur the lines of reality? You'll still be sitting a chair with a machine strapped to your face. People also think it will change video games forever, but I honestly don't see how. It improves immersion, but for me, immersion isn't even on the top 10 list of things that I care about in games. Feel free to disagree, but I'm just saying that people are really hyping this thing up.
- aresant 11y ago
  I tried to illustrate why I'm excited for this being the FIRST. Just to challenge your thinking about what comes next: > kind of just make me roll my eyes. We've been hearing things like that for decades. Is it really going to blur the lines of reality? Tricking your vision is HUGE to changing your reality. We perceive up to 80 per cent of all impressions by means of our sight. (1) https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=vision%20compared%20to%20other%20senses https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e... > You'll still be sitting a chair with a machine strapped to your face. -=> Give the form factor a couple of years. Every sensor in there is being miniaturized by the day. Magic Leap (and others) are using tricks to project imagery directly onto your retina. Google's already filed > People also think it will change video games forever, but I honestly don't see how. It improves immersion, but for me, immersion isn't even on the top 10 list of things that I care about in games. -=> Ok I'll bite, on gaming - Go play Elite Dangerous + DK2 + Motion Sim and tell me that you don't believe you're flying in outer space. It's that good. More accessible, and I bet we see a lot of these, is VR coasters w/motion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcmQr2y5Z88 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcmQr2y5Z88 - another easy one to try is Assetto Corsa + DK2 + driving wheel. Games are a popular idea about VR's application but doesn't scratch the service in terms of application - training, social interaction, SEX, therapy, etc, etc.
  - TheGRS 11y ago
moron4hire 11y ago
Seriously! The complete lack of vision from people who self-claim to be "visionary startup leaders" is mind numbing! And if you can get them to think even a little on the problem, all they can come up with is pedestrian garbage like movie viewing apps.
codingdave 11y ago
I'm not enthused simply because there is no pricing info, and no ship date. Until those exist, this is just marketing.
15charlimit 11y ago
Waiting to see exactly how high above their original ~$350 target price the thing will go for before I decide whether this is interesting/exciting news or not. Pricepoint determines market adoption. It could be the "best thing ever" at $1k and no normal consumer would buy one, leading to a drying up of interest and market adoption, resulting in a dead product. Given who's supporting it, granted, that's not a very likely outcome, but it's still something to keep in mind.
seanzieapples 11y ago
I'm excited to see the future of VR, but I'm ultimately looking at a $1200-$1500 investment at least for a new computer and an Oculus. I simply don't have the money for that right now especially in the early consumer stages of a product. I will say that I have tried DK1 and I was extremely impressed with it. That being said, I'll probably jump on this bandwagon in the next 3-4 years.
dlsx 11y ago
People like you don't get it anymore. It's not about the hot new gadget anymore. And VR is like 3D to the average consumer. Your rant prooves my point. You have to type all those words to explain one thing. Why you are confused no one gives a shit about VR. Personally it makes me sick.
justifier 11y ago
hacker / developer / dreamer you are crazy to discount how substantial this release is (especially if you haven't TRIED it yet!). hacker, developer, dreamer? i feel you are overreaching here.. this is digital stereoscopy, and a consumer version at that which comes with all of the typical consumer shortcomings actively stunting hacking: price intimidates anyone from cracking it open and playing with the internals, where are the io pins?, circuit diagrams?, build instructions? i know, i know.. i sound crazy but, as far as your comment on 'release' one of my favourite things about hn is the communities' reliable response 'congrats on shipping' i'd rather see more of that than people breathing this effluvium of delphi so, congrats on shipping
_pmf_ 11y ago
> Zuck gets this to the degree that I suspect he believes Facebook & VR will be synonymous within a decade (1) The vast majority of Facebook users has neither consoles nor PCs nor any interest in ever purchasing a peripheral in the targeted price range (even if it drops to 100USD). I don't doubt that they can break even regarding development costs, but it won't be a cash cow.
- rm999 11y ago
  Yep, that's why the Gear VR has seen such huge investment from Oculus. It offers a decent VR experience with mainstream phones and a cheap(ish) accessory. https://www.oculus.com/en-us/gear-vr/ https://www.oculus.com/en-us/gear-vr/ My impression is something like this is a big part of the future of the Oculus platform, and that the Rift is designed to deliver higher quality experiences until mobile catches up.
- erikpukinskis 11y ago
  The Big Kahuna is going to be standalone mobile VR headsets. Expect to see a self-contained headset from Oculus for the price of a mobile phone within 5 years. Zuck knows he failed with Facebook Home. He has surveyed the landscape and he knows he'll never be more than the most-used app on someone else's phone. But he's still salivating to own a platform, so he's looking to the future. Think about this: if you're sitting on the train, or waiting in the Doctor's office, would you rather wait in VR, or in a waiting room with your nose in a mobile phone? And if you remove all of the bored killing-time-in-spaces-you'd-rather-not-be uses of mobile phones, how much use is really left in them? Think too, how many phone calls will you make when you can run around a virtual dinosaur park, or sit under a virtual night sky with your friends and family? I don't know the answer to these questions, but it does seem like VR could put quite a lot of pressure on what is now the dominant category of computing devices. And Zuck is better positioned than anyone to be the pack leader. Also consider that phones are fundamentally disconnected from remote friends. You don't really want your sister scrolling through the news with you when you're on the train. But you might be totally happy to have her sitting next to you in a flowery meadow in VR while you both catch up on your news feed. Or maybe she is on the surface of Mars and you are in a flowery meadow but you both feel like you are together. Maybe she's fighting aliens in a forest while you are collecting mushrooms, bantering back and forth about what happened at work. VR is fundamentally more amenable to social than flat screens are. Look no further than social console gaming to see the start of this. I think the merger of Facebook and Oculus is fascinating.
falcolas 11y ago
Two words: Oculus Only The last word I heard from the Oculus team is that the game releases would be restricted for use with the Oculus only. No morpheus, no holo-lens, no (insert startup here). This has killed my desire to support Oculus.
Tmmrn 11y ago
I have no enthusiasm left for Oculus. > But if you're browsing HN because you're a hacker / developer / dreamer you are crazy to discount how substantial this release is (especially if you haven't TRIED it yet!). I bought a Rift DK2, because they said that they support linux. Their linux support was never complete and always pretty bad, especially mesa support was always buggy. So I haven't seen much in the DK2 until I sold it after oculus dropped linux support. Enthusiasm for VR is still there, but for oculus? They didn't deliver what they promised for their DK2. The only good thing is that - unlike with the DK2 - linux users know for sure not to buy it now. Maybe Valve will get it right with Steam OS.

by aresant 11y ago

strictnein 11y ago

I'm super excited and will be preordering. I think a lot of the "meh" response is the pre-announcement of the announcement aspect of this. With almost no details.

wmeredith 11y ago

How do I try one without buying it? [serious]

aresant 11y ago
If you mean the consumer rift you're limited to the big electronics shows for now, I'm sure that they have plans for broader consumer displays that we'll see in the near future. But if you mean Oculus in general the Gear VR is an ok start (and widely available) but I'd recommend (a) Get yourself to one of the many VR meetups that are fairly geographically distributed @ this point http://vr.meetup.com/ http://vr.meetup.com/ (b) Visit www.reddit.com/r/oculus and make a request for a demo in your area if you're in a less populated area.
soared 11y ago
Map of people with oculus setups willing to give out demos. [1] https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zOfhcB3uWEbI.k7yXLlv2HcGY&hl=en_US https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zOfhcB3uWEbI.k7yXLl...

Pxtl 11y ago

I think the disappointment is the long and rocky road it has taken to get to this point, allowing multiple competitors (Valve, Sony, Microsoft) to be in position to leap-frog them.

mkozlows 11y ago

I've played with a DK2. It was cool. But reasons not to be super-excited are: 1. Hardware requirements are steep (GTX 970 minimum), so plenty of hardware -- including plenty of hardware that's good for high-end gaming today -- won't be good enough for this. 2. Only Windows support. No compatibility with Linux, SteamOS, or even OSX means that the techie enthusiasts who'd play with it as a tech toy are going to be less interested. 3. But biggest of all: The games aren't there. It's become very clear, both from playing with the DK2, and listening to presentations by Valve and Oculus people, that VR games can't just be regular games with VR bolted on. "Skyrim, but with VR" sounds cool, and makes for a cool five-minute demo, but will just make you sick and be unsatisfying in the long term. VR games need to be designed for VR in a really fundamental way. It's not clear that there are any interesting games that do this, or that there's a lot of effort going toward making games like this. If this were a product that were coming out from Nintendo, I'd be confident that they had a good idea about how to adapt their franchises to take advantage of VR in a really cool way, and that there'd be at least a handful of games that made it an absolute must-have. But from Facebook... well, they're a tech company, not a gaming company, so they're depending on someone else to make the games that will justify this thing. Maybe that'll work in the long term, but right now, it doesn't seem like there's any must-have VR game. Add that all up, and this is a product that won't appeal to most gamers yet, and won't appeal to a lot of tech geeks due to the Windows focus, so... yeah.

pkroll 11y ago
Actually, Elder Scrolls Online on the DK2, using Vorpx, is a lot of fun. It's not perfect, but it's much cooler than the game without it, and I've not had any sickness in it.
aresant 11y ago
1) Yep. But not bad for a first generation product. Already plenty of guides about building a VR ready computer for <$1000. 2) Only windows. Agreed. But I'm glad they did so they could get one platform dialed in instead of chasing multiple rabbits. For now. 3) Games - copying part of this - do yourself a favor and try with Elite Dangerous or Assetto Corsa. And gaming doesn't scratch the service in terms of application - training, social interaction, SEX, therapy, etc, etc.

rdtsc 11y ago

Played with prototype -- found it was still not as high fidelity to be usable for what we were doing. I am afraid it was hyped enough that we had higher expectations. The roller-coaster demo was cool but it was still like looking through a screen-door (through mosquito net), the square pixels were too distracting.

harpastum 11y ago
Which prototype? It sounds like you used a DK1, where the SDE (screen door effect) was very pronounced. The DK1's resolution is 1280×800@60hz. The DK2 is 1920x1080@75hz, and the CV1 (subject of OP) is 2160×1200@90hz. I'm sure the SDE is still perceptible in the CV1 if you look closely enough, but most reports say it is no longer an issue.
- rdtsc 11y ago
  Yap it was DK1. Well, that's good to know. I didn't follow u after that much. We moved on from that project, and now I am at a different company altogether. But they'll probably revisit it next year or so. It was just an experimental "let's see what we can do with this" thing and we decided to wait till next generation.

vlunkr 11y ago

Am I the only one that's still a little skeptical? I'm sure that it's a great technology and we will see interesting things come out of it, but statements like this > Oculus + 3D audio + input + eventual tactical is going to completely blur the lines of reality in ways we can't yet imagine. kind of just make me roll my eyes. We've been hearing things like that for decades. Is it really going to blur the lines of reality? You'll still be sitting a chair with a machine strapped to your face. People also think it will change video games forever, but I honestly don't see how. It improves immersion, but for me, immersion isn't even on the top 10 list of things that I care about in games. Feel free to disagree, but I'm just saying that people are really hyping this thing up.

aresant 11y ago
I tried to illustrate why I'm excited for this being the FIRST. Just to challenge your thinking about what comes next: > kind of just make me roll my eyes. We've been hearing things like that for decades. Is it really going to blur the lines of reality? Tricking your vision is HUGE to changing your reality. We perceive up to 80 per cent of all impressions by means of our sight. (1) https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=vision%20compared%20to%20other%20senses https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e... > You'll still be sitting a chair with a machine strapped to your face. -=> Give the form factor a couple of years. Every sensor in there is being miniaturized by the day. Magic Leap (and others) are using tricks to project imagery directly onto your retina. Google's already filed > People also think it will change video games forever, but I honestly don't see how. It improves immersion, but for me, immersion isn't even on the top 10 list of things that I care about in games. -=> Ok I'll bite, on gaming - Go play Elite Dangerous + DK2 + Motion Sim and tell me that you don't believe you're flying in outer space. It's that good. More accessible, and I bet we see a lot of these, is VR coasters w/motion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcmQr2y5Z88 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcmQr2y5Z88 - another easy one to try is Assetto Corsa + DK2 + driving wheel. Games are a popular idea about VR's application but doesn't scratch the service in terms of application - training, social interaction, SEX, therapy, etc, etc.
- TheGRS 11y ago

moron4hire 11y ago

Seriously! The complete lack of vision from people who self-claim to be "visionary startup leaders" is mind numbing! And if you can get them to think even a little on the problem, all they can come up with is pedestrian garbage like movie viewing apps.

codingdave 11y ago

I'm not enthused simply because there is no pricing info, and no ship date. Until those exist, this is just marketing.

15charlimit 11y ago

Waiting to see exactly how high above their original ~$350 target price the thing will go for before I decide whether this is interesting/exciting news or not. Pricepoint determines market adoption. It could be the "best thing ever" at $1k and no normal consumer would buy one, leading to a drying up of interest and market adoption, resulting in a dead product. Given who's supporting it, granted, that's not a very likely outcome, but it's still something to keep in mind.

seanzieapples 11y ago

I'm excited to see the future of VR, but I'm ultimately looking at a $1200-$1500 investment at least for a new computer and an Oculus. I simply don't have the money for that right now especially in the early consumer stages of a product. I will say that I have tried DK1 and I was extremely impressed with it. That being said, I'll probably jump on this bandwagon in the next 3-4 years.

dlsx 11y ago

People like you don't get it anymore. It's not about the hot new gadget anymore. And VR is like 3D to the average consumer. Your rant prooves my point. You have to type all those words to explain one thing. Why you are confused no one gives a shit about VR. Personally it makes me sick.

justifier 11y ago

hacker / developer / dreamer you are crazy to discount how substantial this release is (especially if you haven't TRIED it yet!). hacker, developer, dreamer? i feel you are overreaching here.. this is digital stereoscopy, and a consumer version at that which comes with all of the typical consumer shortcomings actively stunting hacking: price intimidates anyone from cracking it open and playing with the internals, where are the io pins?, circuit diagrams?, build instructions? i know, i know.. i sound crazy but, as far as your comment on 'release' one of my favourite things about hn is the communities' reliable response 'congrats on shipping' i'd rather see more of that than people breathing this effluvium of delphi so, congrats on shipping

_pmf_ 11y ago

> Zuck gets this to the degree that I suspect he believes Facebook & VR will be synonymous within a decade (1) The vast majority of Facebook users has neither consoles nor PCs nor any interest in ever purchasing a peripheral in the targeted price range (even if it drops to 100USD). I don't doubt that they can break even regarding development costs, but it won't be a cash cow.

rm999 11y ago
Yep, that's why the Gear VR has seen such huge investment from Oculus. It offers a decent VR experience with mainstream phones and a cheap(ish) accessory. https://www.oculus.com/en-us/gear-vr/ https://www.oculus.com/en-us/gear-vr/ My impression is something like this is a big part of the future of the Oculus platform, and that the Rift is designed to deliver higher quality experiences until mobile catches up.
erikpukinskis 11y ago
The Big Kahuna is going to be standalone mobile VR headsets. Expect to see a self-contained headset from Oculus for the price of a mobile phone within 5 years. Zuck knows he failed with Facebook Home. He has surveyed the landscape and he knows he'll never be more than the most-used app on someone else's phone. But he's still salivating to own a platform, so he's looking to the future. Think about this: if you're sitting on the train, or waiting in the Doctor's office, would you rather wait in VR, or in a waiting room with your nose in a mobile phone? And if you remove all of the bored killing-time-in-spaces-you'd-rather-not-be uses of mobile phones, how much use is really left in them? Think too, how many phone calls will you make when you can run around a virtual dinosaur park, or sit under a virtual night sky with your friends and family? I don't know the answer to these questions, but it does seem like VR could put quite a lot of pressure on what is now the dominant category of computing devices. And Zuck is better positioned than anyone to be the pack leader. Also consider that phones are fundamentally disconnected from remote friends. You don't really want your sister scrolling through the news with you when you're on the train. But you might be totally happy to have her sitting next to you in a flowery meadow in VR while you both catch up on your news feed. Or maybe she is on the surface of Mars and you are in a flowery meadow but you both feel like you are together. Maybe she's fighting aliens in a forest while you are collecting mushrooms, bantering back and forth about what happened at work. VR is fundamentally more amenable to social than flat screens are. Look no further than social console gaming to see the start of this. I think the merger of Facebook and Oculus is fascinating.

falcolas 11y ago

Two words: Oculus Only The last word I heard from the Oculus team is that the game releases would be restricted for use with the Oculus only. No morpheus, no holo-lens, no (insert startup here). This has killed my desire to support Oculus.

Tmmrn 11y ago

I have no enthusiasm left for Oculus. > But if you're browsing HN because you're a hacker / developer / dreamer you are crazy to discount how substantial this release is (especially if you haven't TRIED it yet!). I bought a Rift DK2, because they said that they support linux. Their linux support was never complete and always pretty bad, especially mesa support was always buggy. So I haven't seen much in the DK2 until I sold it after oculus dropped linux support. Enthusiasm for VR is still there, but for oculus? They didn't deliver what they promised for their DK2. The only good thing is that - unlike with the DK2 - linux users know for sure not to buy it now. Maybe Valve will get it right with Steam OS.