7 ms·

I've also thought about that a lot. I had a friend at a previous employer who considered starting a food truck business instead of doing software development.

Raphmedia 11y ago
I do web development with flexible hours and I don't even have internet outside of work. Learn to say no to your boss. Work, computers and internet are only a small part of life.
- kevingadd 11y ago
  Saying no to your boss is a nice policy, but most of the destructive aspects of modern tech jobs are not optional things. 'Saying no' to those things means not having a job (at least in this field)
  - jazzyk 11y ago
    It depends.I am a consultant and have worked for many different companies on many different projects. In most cases, people say "yes" without even being asked by their bosses - out of (imaginary) fear of losing their jobs. We are fortunate to work in an industry where, even in a stagnant economy, finding another job is not a huge problem, should it come to this in rare cases (although looking for work is never fun, I know). Please man up and don't do it to yourselves and to other people. That said, outside of paid work, I often work/read up on stuff which benefits ME, whether it is professional or personal development.
  - Retric 11y ago
    A lot of government contracting jobs exist for programmers that are really 9-5 with ~zero overtime. Granted, they pay less than SV salary's people talk about on HN, but it's still plenty of money compared to most people in the US.
    - amyjess 11y ago
      I work at a defense contractor; I can confirm this. 9-5 and no overtime. Sure, I have to keep timesheets, but whatever. Actually, my salary is on par with the standard salaries for my area. No, it's not SV level, but salaries in Dallas are much lower than SV across the board. Cost of living is so much cheaper, though, that I'd rather work at a defense contractor in Dallas than at a unicorn in SV. I can handily afford a 1500 sq. ft. townhouse on $65k/year, here... (I could afford it on less actually... I was making $42k when I first moved in). I don't think anybody in California can say that.
- jedberg 11y ago
  The problem with anything programing or computer based is that I feel compelled to learn something new if I'm not working on a project, so even in my "off hours" I'm reading about a new language or algorithm or whatever.
  - kevingadd 11y ago
    And these days the odds are good that your personal projects or interests may contribute to your career, in which case your job and your interests are hopelessly intertwined. Now you have no way to avoid thinking about work unless you completely drop your hobbies.
    - NovaS1X 11y ago
      I was going through this process for a while before I came to the conclusion that I needed to pick up an artistic hobby. I figured my entire life was very unbalanced towards technical betterment and improving my technical skillset. I took up photography as a hobby for my off-time. I no longer think about work when I'm not there or there's not an emergency with someone paging me. It's a really nice feeling to be able to apply the same amount of mental hyperactivity to something non-technical. Just don't fall into the gear obsession trap!
      - taurath 11y ago
        I've had conversations with hiring managers who believe that the only good programmers are those who do it for 60+ hours a week whether paid or unpaid (I do not pursue these positions). What worries me about not having "technical" hobbies is falling behind. Theres always an unlimited amount of things to learn, and in much of the culture on this site if you're not actively making things in and out of work then you're not following the ideal.
        NovaS1X 11y ago
        Well there's a level of truth to that. The best programmers tend to be the ones who are autodidacts who are passionate about their career path and it tends to spill over into personal life. The best are the ones who were learning and building at a young age and accepted "technology" as a part of their personal identity and built their life around that. Hiring managers know this and target these individuals because they know these individuals will align their efforts to the companies interests and they reward them for it. Personally, it's not worth the stress. I was in the hospital for stress induced heart failure last year and work was a contributing factor along with urban life. Now I divide my time amongst other things. The market where I live is competitive and anyone who expects me to work a 60 hour week for them all the time and attack me for not doing so can politely fuck right off as it's not worth my life. Thankfully I don't have to deal with this; companies don't like paying overtime and I'm thankful to work for a company that respects my time.
- teekert 11y ago
  This seems to be a cultural issue, around me in the Netherlands, most people I know slam their laptop shut between 17 and 18h and open it again between 8 and 9h, in between they are offline. A boss that would try to reach you in that time would be frowned upon. I think that we have a (more) hierarchy despising culture than most countries, that helps probably. My company recently forced Vodafone Mobile device Management upon us, since that happened many people also stopped syncing their own smartphones (what a horrible app on Android). But I am in R&D where I guess deadlines are less strict...? Even during my PhD the lab would be mostly empty at 18:00 though I guess the people that were still working were the ones ending op at MIT. I guess there is a reason we don't have a booming start-up culture here :)
  - BuckRogers 11y ago
    I lived in northern France and have thought about the differences between here (the US) and Europe a lot. I think it's as much just kind of "bad luck" that the startup scene isn't there. The US really sucks a lot of lifeblood out of many other nations, partially because it was "first" with many of the entrepreneurial spirited ways of doing things here. Would the Netherlands (one of my favorite places in the world) have a booming startup culture with changes in laws and cultural norms? No, I don't think so. Anyone who wants to be involved with that stuff moves themselves over anyway. It's odd because the Europeans were the first real entrepreneurs with colonialism, but it seems like that part of European culture (or maybe those particular minded Europeans) were exported and sent off as well. I'm personally very interested in colonial era history and subsequent history of the Americas since that was the beginning of modern North/South America, and would love to run across a writeup someday attempting to breakdown the differences between new/old world thinking. Because even the Latin nations like Mexico are significantly different in how entrepreneurship is admired than from say, Spain or Italy.
beachstartup 11y ago
anyone who thinks running a food truck is somehow easier, or less stressful, or offers more freedom than sitting in an office and developing software for someone else is in for a rude awakening.
- freehunter 11y ago
  Yeah, you might not be cooking and serving off hours, but you're going to be doing marketing, you're going to be doing purchasing, you're going to be talking to clients about locations, you're going to be fixing your recipes when your order of beans didn't come in right, or when the price of ketchup spikes. If you own your business, no matter what, you are always thinking of your business. Especially when your business is small and will always be small enough that you're the only significant leadership in the entire company. You won't be doing too much delegation of responsibilities in a food truck.
- humbleMouse 11y ago
  Well said. Running a food truck is one of the most ridiculous businesses out there.

Raphmedia 11y ago

I do web development with flexible hours and I don't even have internet outside of work. Learn to say no to your boss. Work, computers and internet are only a small part of life.

kevingadd 11y ago
Saying no to your boss is a nice policy, but most of the destructive aspects of modern tech jobs are not optional things. 'Saying no' to those things means not having a job (at least in this field)
- jazzyk 11y ago
  It depends.I am a consultant and have worked for many different companies on many different projects. In most cases, people say "yes" without even being asked by their bosses - out of (imaginary) fear of losing their jobs. We are fortunate to work in an industry where, even in a stagnant economy, finding another job is not a huge problem, should it come to this in rare cases (although looking for work is never fun, I know). Please man up and don't do it to yourselves and to other people. That said, outside of paid work, I often work/read up on stuff which benefits ME, whether it is professional or personal development.
- Retric 11y ago
  A lot of government contracting jobs exist for programmers that are really 9-5 with ~zero overtime. Granted, they pay less than SV salary's people talk about on HN, but it's still plenty of money compared to most people in the US.
  - amyjess 11y ago
    I work at a defense contractor; I can confirm this. 9-5 and no overtime. Sure, I have to keep timesheets, but whatever. Actually, my salary is on par with the standard salaries for my area. No, it's not SV level, but salaries in Dallas are much lower than SV across the board. Cost of living is so much cheaper, though, that I'd rather work at a defense contractor in Dallas than at a unicorn in SV. I can handily afford a 1500 sq. ft. townhouse on $65k/year, here... (I could afford it on less actually... I was making $42k when I first moved in). I don't think anybody in California can say that.
jedberg 11y ago
The problem with anything programing or computer based is that I feel compelled to learn something new if I'm not working on a project, so even in my "off hours" I'm reading about a new language or algorithm or whatever.
- kevingadd 11y ago
  And these days the odds are good that your personal projects or interests may contribute to your career, in which case your job and your interests are hopelessly intertwined. Now you have no way to avoid thinking about work unless you completely drop your hobbies.
  - NovaS1X 11y ago
    I was going through this process for a while before I came to the conclusion that I needed to pick up an artistic hobby. I figured my entire life was very unbalanced towards technical betterment and improving my technical skillset. I took up photography as a hobby for my off-time. I no longer think about work when I'm not there or there's not an emergency with someone paging me. It's a really nice feeling to be able to apply the same amount of mental hyperactivity to something non-technical. Just don't fall into the gear obsession trap!
    - taurath 11y ago
      I've had conversations with hiring managers who believe that the only good programmers are those who do it for 60+ hours a week whether paid or unpaid (I do not pursue these positions). What worries me about not having "technical" hobbies is falling behind. Theres always an unlimited amount of things to learn, and in much of the culture on this site if you're not actively making things in and out of work then you're not following the ideal.
      - NovaS1X 11y ago
        Well there's a level of truth to that. The best programmers tend to be the ones who are autodidacts who are passionate about their career path and it tends to spill over into personal life. The best are the ones who were learning and building at a young age and accepted "technology" as a part of their personal identity and built their life around that. Hiring managers know this and target these individuals because they know these individuals will align their efforts to the companies interests and they reward them for it. Personally, it's not worth the stress. I was in the hospital for stress induced heart failure last year and work was a contributing factor along with urban life. Now I divide my time amongst other things. The market where I live is competitive and anyone who expects me to work a 60 hour week for them all the time and attack me for not doing so can politely fuck right off as it's not worth my life. Thankfully I don't have to deal with this; companies don't like paying overtime and I'm thankful to work for a company that respects my time.
teekert 11y ago
This seems to be a cultural issue, around me in the Netherlands, most people I know slam their laptop shut between 17 and 18h and open it again between 8 and 9h, in between they are offline. A boss that would try to reach you in that time would be frowned upon. I think that we have a (more) hierarchy despising culture than most countries, that helps probably. My company recently forced Vodafone Mobile device Management upon us, since that happened many people also stopped syncing their own smartphones (what a horrible app on Android). But I am in R&D where I guess deadlines are less strict...? Even during my PhD the lab would be mostly empty at 18:00 though I guess the people that were still working were the ones ending op at MIT. I guess there is a reason we don't have a booming start-up culture here :)
- BuckRogers 11y ago
  I lived in northern France and have thought about the differences between here (the US) and Europe a lot. I think it's as much just kind of "bad luck" that the startup scene isn't there. The US really sucks a lot of lifeblood out of many other nations, partially because it was "first" with many of the entrepreneurial spirited ways of doing things here. Would the Netherlands (one of my favorite places in the world) have a booming startup culture with changes in laws and cultural norms? No, I don't think so. Anyone who wants to be involved with that stuff moves themselves over anyway. It's odd because the Europeans were the first real entrepreneurs with colonialism, but it seems like that part of European culture (or maybe those particular minded Europeans) were exported and sent off as well. I'm personally very interested in colonial era history and subsequent history of the Americas since that was the beginning of modern North/South America, and would love to run across a writeup someday attempting to breakdown the differences between new/old world thinking. Because even the Latin nations like Mexico are significantly different in how entrepreneurship is admired than from say, Spain or Italy.

beachstartup 11y ago

anyone who thinks running a food truck is somehow easier, or less stressful, or offers more freedom than sitting in an office and developing software for someone else is in for a rude awakening.

freehunter 11y ago
Yeah, you might not be cooking and serving off hours, but you're going to be doing marketing, you're going to be doing purchasing, you're going to be talking to clients about locations, you're going to be fixing your recipes when your order of beans didn't come in right, or when the price of ketchup spikes. If you own your business, no matter what, you are always thinking of your business. Especially when your business is small and will always be small enough that you're the only significant leadership in the entire company. You won't be doing too much delegation of responsibilities in a food truck.
humbleMouse 11y ago
Well said. Running a food truck is one of the most ridiculous businesses out there.