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>So if you're reading this and you're one of those new or interested people: please don't let this turn you off from discovering and learning tools like sed or

>So if you're reading this and you're one of those new or interested people: please don't let this turn you off from discovering and learning tools like sed or Python. Your comment has exactly the same effect on me that its content warns people about. I'm not interested in an industry where people engage in policing other people's tone and word choices in such a harsh way. For every imaginary person you claim who might be turned off from the industry when reading such terms, there's some other imaginary person who feels more connected and enjoys the atmosphere better maybe because it seems more honest and less "professional".

SwellJoe 11y ago
"policing other people's tone and word choices in such a harsh way" Feeling offended, are we? His words no more harmed you than the original article harmed the person you're replying to, and they certainly don't have the force of police backing them up. We all have the right to express our opinions, and we all should have the expectation to be called on it when we say stupid shit (like "pussied out" or "manned up", which are sexist in a time where at least some of us would like for our industry to be more diverse and welcoming to new people, especially people who aren't especially common in our industry, like women). The article said some stupid shit, surrounded by lots of good advice. It's OK to call out the stupid shit. Take your own advice: Don't be so sensitive.
- wtbob 11y ago
  IMHO, stating '"manned up" is stupid shit' is at least as stupid as saying 'manned up,' but probably more so: where the latter is just a bit juvenile, and can be used deliberately for effect, the latter is just childish. It shouldn't be taken any more seriously than emanations of 'Timmy is looking at me!' from the back seat.
  - SwellJoe 11y ago
    My metric for why "manned up" and "pussied out" is the kind of language I don't want to use, is "will this make someone, particularly someone in the extreme minority in my community, feel unwelcome or unwanted or unappreciated in my community?" So, of course, my first amendment rights mean I can say those kinds of things, without fear of police knocking down my door and dragging me off to a gulag. But, I don't want to say them, because it makes some people feel unwelcome in the conversation. Who do you believe I've made to feel unwelcome in saying that those phrases are stupid? (If the answer is, "People who enjoy saying shit that contributes to a culture of misogyny and sexism, with no one ever calling them on it." Then, I'm OK with it. It there's some other answer, I'd sincerely like to hear it.)
    - wtbob 11y ago
      The thing is, I don't think that 'manned up' is something which 'contributes to a culture of misogyny and sexism'; on the contrary, I believe that it's a valuable phrase. It is objectively better to be a man than a child. Like you, I don't mind making people feel unwelcome who really are unwelcome; unlike you, I consider people who derail technical discussions ostensibly to complain about perceived bias (but really to attract attention to themselves) to be unwelcome.
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- secure 11y ago
  In your reference [1], one of the answers is http://english.stackexchange.com/a/100992 http://english.stackexchange.com/a/100992: > OED gives at least two different senses for this word. That of female genitalia is attested as early as 1699, but it's not considered for the sense meaning "coward". The other one, which I copy below, is the purported source of pussy meaning "coward". Basically, using a pet name usually given to women, like sweetheart, princess, etc. to refer to a man mockingly. The part where making fun of a person by calling them women names is what’s not okay, regardless of whose genitalia are involved or aren’t.
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- theseoafs 11y ago
  The only outrage I'm seeing here is yours. Regardless of the ancient linguistic evidence you want to trot out, "pussy" is a gendered term in this day and age. It just is. And using gendered terms as insults is going to make people uncomfortable, "social justice warriors" notwithstanding.
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    [deleted]
    - theseoafs 11y ago
      Those same people also understand that the word "pussy" means "vagina". I refuse to believe that everyone is truly under the impression that these are two completely independent words with no relation whatsoever. This is the same argument that leads people to believe that it's okay to call someone a faggot if you're not literally talking about gay people and I don't buy it. Moreover I don't see what "hoops" you have to jump through to see why using the word in that way could upset some people. We should use language which isn't divisive. Finally, the "pussy" thing is kind of secondary to me to "man up", which is also far from ideal to me in terms of phrasing.

SwellJoe 11y ago

"policing other people's tone and word choices in such a harsh way" Feeling offended, are we? His words no more harmed you than the original article harmed the person you're replying to, and they certainly don't have the force of police backing them up. We all have the right to express our opinions, and we all should have the expectation to be called on it when we say stupid shit (like "pussied out" or "manned up", which are sexist in a time where at least some of us would like for our industry to be more diverse and welcoming to new people, especially people who aren't especially common in our industry, like women). The article said some stupid shit, surrounded by lots of good advice. It's OK to call out the stupid shit. Take your own advice: Don't be so sensitive.

wtbob 11y ago
IMHO, stating '"manned up" is stupid shit' is at least as stupid as saying 'manned up,' but probably more so: where the latter is just a bit juvenile, and can be used deliberately for effect, the latter is just childish. It shouldn't be taken any more seriously than emanations of 'Timmy is looking at me!' from the back seat.
- SwellJoe 11y ago
  My metric for why "manned up" and "pussied out" is the kind of language I don't want to use, is "will this make someone, particularly someone in the extreme minority in my community, feel unwelcome or unwanted or unappreciated in my community?" So, of course, my first amendment rights mean I can say those kinds of things, without fear of police knocking down my door and dragging me off to a gulag. But, I don't want to say them, because it makes some people feel unwelcome in the conversation. Who do you believe I've made to feel unwelcome in saying that those phrases are stupid? (If the answer is, "People who enjoy saying shit that contributes to a culture of misogyny and sexism, with no one ever calling them on it." Then, I'm OK with it. It there's some other answer, I'd sincerely like to hear it.)
  - wtbob 11y ago
    The thing is, I don't think that 'manned up' is something which 'contributes to a culture of misogyny and sexism'; on the contrary, I believe that it's a valuable phrase. It is objectively better to be a man than a child. Like you, I don't mind making people feel unwelcome who really are unwelcome; unlike you, I consider people who derail technical discussions ostensibly to complain about perceived bias (but really to attract attention to themselves) to be unwelcome.

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secure 11y ago
In your reference [1], one of the answers is http://english.stackexchange.com/a/100992 http://english.stackexchange.com/a/100992: > OED gives at least two different senses for this word. That of female genitalia is attested as early as 1699, but it's not considered for the sense meaning "coward". The other one, which I copy below, is the purported source of pussy meaning "coward". Basically, using a pet name usually given to women, like sweetheart, princess, etc. to refer to a man mockingly. The part where making fun of a person by calling them women names is what’s not okay, regardless of whose genitalia are involved or aren’t.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
theseoafs 11y ago
The only outrage I'm seeing here is yours. Regardless of the ancient linguistic evidence you want to trot out, "pussy" is a gendered term in this day and age. It just is. And using gendered terms as insults is going to make people uncomfortable, "social justice warriors" notwithstanding.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  - theseoafs 11y ago
    Those same people also understand that the word "pussy" means "vagina". I refuse to believe that everyone is truly under the impression that these are two completely independent words with no relation whatsoever. This is the same argument that leads people to believe that it's okay to call someone a faggot if you're not literally talking about gay people and I don't buy it. Moreover I don't see what "hoops" you have to jump through to see why using the word in that way could upset some people. We should use language which isn't divisive. Finally, the "pussy" thing is kind of secondary to me to "man up", which is also far from ideal to me in terms of phrasing.