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Ask HN: Is java technology not suited for web based applications?

3 points by mastermind1981 11y ago

Hi, I am java developer and I have noticed that most of the jobs posted either in HN or angel.co concerns mainly Python, Node.js or Ruby. Most of the jobs offers are startup's ones so the technologies seeked by the recruiters are web and/or mobile oriented. I understand that technologies like Javascript/ python/ Ruby are more convenient because they are web oriented. My question : is there a place for java technology in the landscape of modern/future web developement? PS: I have used Play framework and Dropwizard and other java web based frameworks and I think they are comparable to other Frameworks like ROR, Django, Node.js (every technology/stack has it's own pros and cons) but it seems they are far behind python, javascript and Ruby based frameworks for web application/site developement when using the jobs offers as a metric.

yonibot 11y ago
I think you will find Java less often among startups because initial development can take longer, and startups are often strapped for cash. Some companies eventually switch to the JVM (Java, Scala, etc.) for performance reasons, and many don't. I personally have never worked as a Java developer, so take this with many grains of salt.
- mastermind1981 11y ago
  I agree with you. I think may be the time to market using other technologies than java may be lower. But is there a substantial difference in productivity using Python/Node.js / ROR over Java?
  - davelnewton 11y ago
    That totally depends on a number of factors. I'm more productive in RoR than in Java because I don't have to type as much--but I'm not that familiar with the newer Java web technologies, so I'm biased. Hugely more productive? Probably not; modern Java web development is pretty speedy, and the tooling (primarily IDEs) are better for Java because of its relatively static nature.
davelnewton 11y ago
Java is less popular among startups because: 1) It's not "cool" 2) It's still saddled with performance FUD, although people are finally realizing it's really fast 3) The ecosystem is huge 4) It isn't suitable for everything, e.g., it often just makes more sense to use something else for the front end (client-side) and use Java tools for infrastructure (search, messaging, etc.) 5) Java's "true" home is the enterprise, and it's pretty well-suited for that: it's well-known, ubiquitous, performant, and can interface to anything You're looking at self-selected jobs, which skews your perception of what people are looking for. As a counter-example, I probably get 2-4x Java emails compared to other ecosystems combined. To be fair, most of those emails are for boring jobs, but a lot center around big data. With the switch to client-side frameworks Java web apps are a dying breed outside of the enterprise, but the back-end API can be anything.
- mastermind1981 11y ago
  Totally agree except for the jobs offers for java :)
  - davelnewton 11y ago
    Sure wish I got less of them; there's almost no chance I'll return to Java in a meaningful way. JVM, yes. Java, not so much :/
johnnydoebk 11y ago
Well, I'd understand your concerns if you asked about Haskell or Erlang for web-development. I suppose there are not so many companies who develop their web apps in those languages and it may be just not that easy to find an appropriate position. But Java? Open http://yclist.com/ http://yclist.com/ (list of YC companies). There are enough of those who uses Java.
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yonibot 11y ago

I think you will find Java less often among startups because initial development can take longer, and startups are often strapped for cash. Some companies eventually switch to the JVM (Java, Scala, etc.) for performance reasons, and many don't. I personally have never worked as a Java developer, so take this with many grains of salt.

mastermind1981 11y ago
I agree with you. I think may be the time to market using other technologies than java may be lower. But is there a substantial difference in productivity using Python/Node.js / ROR over Java?
- davelnewton 11y ago
  That totally depends on a number of factors. I'm more productive in RoR than in Java because I don't have to type as much--but I'm not that familiar with the newer Java web technologies, so I'm biased. Hugely more productive? Probably not; modern Java web development is pretty speedy, and the tooling (primarily IDEs) are better for Java because of its relatively static nature.

davelnewton 11y ago

Java is less popular among startups because: 1) It's not "cool" 2) It's still saddled with performance FUD, although people are finally realizing it's really fast 3) The ecosystem is huge 4) It isn't suitable for everything, e.g., it often just makes more sense to use something else for the front end (client-side) and use Java tools for infrastructure (search, messaging, etc.) 5) Java's "true" home is the enterprise, and it's pretty well-suited for that: it's well-known, ubiquitous, performant, and can interface to anything You're looking at self-selected jobs, which skews your perception of what people are looking for. As a counter-example, I probably get 2-4x Java emails compared to other ecosystems combined. To be fair, most of those emails are for boring jobs, but a lot center around big data. With the switch to client-side frameworks Java web apps are a dying breed outside of the enterprise, but the back-end API can be anything.

mastermind1981 11y ago
Totally agree except for the jobs offers for java :)
- davelnewton 11y ago
  Sure wish I got less of them; there's almost no chance I'll return to Java in a meaningful way. JVM, yes. Java, not so much :/

johnnydoebk 11y ago

Well, I'd understand your concerns if you asked about Haskell or Erlang for web-development. I suppose there are not so many companies who develop their web apps in those languages and it may be just not that easy to find an appropriate position. But Java? Open http://yclist.com/ http://yclist.com/ (list of YC companies). There are enough of those who uses Java.

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