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Recently, I have found myself drawn to a range of people who describe themselves or are described by others as “libertarians” – only to find once again that the

by IsaacL 11y ago

Recently, I have found myself drawn to a range of people who describe themselves or are described by others as “libertarians” – only to find once again that there’s a hymn sheet of horrors that many seem to sing from. [...] Another commonly displayed “libertarian” approach that I struggle to respect is the puerile desire to offend, bolstered by the dubious claim that this is somehow a noble and worthwhile antidote to the equally tedious culture of taking offence. [...] There is no evidence whatsoever that anyone’s personal liberty is furthered by such infantile sneering; yet swarms of supposedly liberal followers rejoice in this toxic effluence with excited applause, like an encouraging mother will celebrate her toddler’s first shit in the potty. I long had libertarian-ish leanings, but I agree with the author's points above. By coincidence, in another tab I was just reading "The Fable of the Cardiac Surgeon or Why I Don’t Support Libertarian Organizations" - http://www.philosophyinaction.com/blog/?p=663 http://www.philosophyinaction.com/blog/?p=663. It's an interesting read for those of similar mind.

smoyer 11y ago
I also conceptually like the idea of libertarianism, but recognize that it's an impossible form of society and you can't really create a government around it. What I recommend to everyone is that they go around trying to be a libertarian - respect everyone else's rights like they'd like their own to be respected. With regard to the author's interaction with a "pack" of libertarians - you can find quite a few of groups but they rarely agree with each other.
- asift 11y ago
  >you can't really create a government around it You say that as if it's a bug and not a feature... In all seriousness, I'm not sure I understand your claim that it's an impossible form of society. I understand the argument that the US or other existing nation states aren't going to become libertarian societies, but I see no theoretical reason why the creation of such a society is impossible (particularly when sea and space colonies start opening up new frontiers). I think this Startup School presentation by Balaji Srinavasan is relevant: https://youtu.be/cOubCHLXT6A https://youtu.be/cOubCHLXT6A
  - smoyer 11y ago
    I didn't mean to make it sound that way - I think it's a feature. Many of the libertarian groups don't seem to recognize this and are proposing we try to create Xanadu (and I don't mean Ted Nelson's product - it's more likely to exist). I agree that these societies could exist outside of a formal government - they'd need the ability to evict people which probably means everyone would need citizenship elsewhere.

by IsaacL 11y ago

smoyer 11y ago

I also conceptually like the idea of libertarianism, but recognize that it's an impossible form of society and you can't really create a government around it. What I recommend to everyone is that they go around trying to be a libertarian - respect everyone else's rights like they'd like their own to be respected. With regard to the author's interaction with a "pack" of libertarians - you can find quite a few of groups but they rarely agree with each other.

asift 11y ago
>you can't really create a government around it You say that as if it's a bug and not a feature... In all seriousness, I'm not sure I understand your claim that it's an impossible form of society. I understand the argument that the US or other existing nation states aren't going to become libertarian societies, but I see no theoretical reason why the creation of such a society is impossible (particularly when sea and space colonies start opening up new frontiers). I think this Startup School presentation by Balaji Srinavasan is relevant: https://youtu.be/cOubCHLXT6A https://youtu.be/cOubCHLXT6A
- smoyer 11y ago
  I didn't mean to make it sound that way - I think it's a feature. Many of the libertarian groups don't seem to recognize this and are proposing we try to create Xanadu (and I don't mean Ted Nelson's product - it's more likely to exist). I agree that these societies could exist outside of a formal government - they'd need the ability to evict people which probably means everyone would need citizenship elsewhere.