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Grouping alcohol, caffeine, and sugar together makes no sense. Alcohol is estrogenic and inflammatory and dramatically depletes B vitamins and vitamin A. Sugar

Grouping alcohol, caffeine, and sugar together makes no sense. Alcohol is estrogenic and inflammatory and dramatically depletes B vitamins and vitamin A. Sugar is simply a clean source of calories; perfectly harmless and often beneficial. Caffeine is quite simply good for you. All the epidemiological studies bear out the idea that it's protective against stress and disease. It improves performance. There's zero reason to limit caffeine consumption.

leonroy 11y ago
Just like there were studies in the 70s which vilified saturated fats like butter and animal fat which have since been refuted? You can find a study claiming positive (and negative) health effects for near every substance. Ultimately caffeine is a neurotoxin produced by the coffee bean to repel insects. I think saying there is zero reason to limit caffeine consumption is a bit of a stretch since we're talking about a drug which causes dependence, reduces motor control and increases anxiety. I say this as a huge coffee fan. Grind my own single origin beans, brew them in my Hario pour over or Aeropress etc. But I'm not going to pretend it's this wonderful health drink when it clearly has negative side effects. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine
- Swizec 11y ago
  > reduces motor control Does it? I remember reading that it increased reflexes, improves stamina, and increases physical strength. If that's all true (I might have read an outdated/bad study), then what counts as motor control?
  - EllipticCurve 11y ago
    No, I read some similar studies. This one is quite good, btw. (over 30 years, 200,000 participiants) http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/11/coffee-drinking-linked-to-lower-mortality-risk-again/ http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/11/coffee-drinking-linke...
  - leonroy 11y ago
    Whilst sipping a tasty brazilian coffee there's a little irony in me checking back on this comment to back up my critique on coffee. (Gonna lump all my responses to the various comments here, so apologies if I come across as a bit strong.) Here's what I found regarding motor control: > There is also some evidence that fine motor control may be impaired as a function of the increase in anxiety http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12204388 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12204388 From the aforementioned Wikipedia article: > Caffeine in plants acts as a natural pesticide: it can paralyze and kill predator insects feeding on the plant Regarding my comment on it being a neurotoxin. Caffeine is a central nervous system stimulant. You're basically ingesting plant insecticide which in turn stimulates the nervous system, causes the adrenals to release adrenaline and causes a heightened alert response as well as many other positive AND negative effects. Hence my remark. Source: http://brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/alcohol,_tobacco,_&_other_drugs/caffeine.php http://brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Edu... Most of the research I've seen promotes its health benefits in narrow isolation on one particular facet of human physiology. I haven't seen any evidence that could conclusively sway me towards going from 1 cup a day of coffee to say 4-6 which apparently is the amount a lot of people drink. My own feeling on coffee is that like anything which has pros and cons it should be drunk in moderation.
- habitue 11y ago
  Neurotoxin for insects = terrible evidence of toxicity in humans. We go by evidence of toxicity in humans, and all evidence shows it isn't toxic in the doses people consume it. If you want to say we haven't discovered the secret terrible cancer causing agent in coffee yet, but just you wait... Well it's going to take a lot of evidence. There are lots of controlled studies saying it's pretty good for you. I think what you're picking up on is a distrust by analogy. In the past we thought some things were safe, but they weren't (smoking etc). But the opposite of being ignorant about the effects of chemicals we ingest isn't to suddenly say everything is unsafe. It's to test everything. And we have tested caffeine, and it's safe.
- DrScump 11y ago
  caffeine is a neurotoxin produced by the coffee bean to repel insects The source you quote (Wikipedia) doesn't call it a neurotoxin, nor can I find a source that calls it neurotoxic to humans or other great apes. Were you thinking of nicotine instead? It certainly serves that role against insects for the tobacco plant.
wrong_variable 11y ago
Nice Try Grey - we know you love coffee ! [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTVE5iPMKLg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTVE5iPMKLg
eloisant 11y ago
Excess of anything is bad. Hell, even drinking too much water can kill you.
cmsj 11y ago
You might want to do some more research into sugar :)
dennis_jeeves 11y ago
Ray Peat, isn't it ? :)

leonroy 11y ago

Just like there were studies in the 70s which vilified saturated fats like butter and animal fat which have since been refuted? You can find a study claiming positive (and negative) health effects for near every substance. Ultimately caffeine is a neurotoxin produced by the coffee bean to repel insects. I think saying there is zero reason to limit caffeine consumption is a bit of a stretch since we're talking about a drug which causes dependence, reduces motor control and increases anxiety. I say this as a huge coffee fan. Grind my own single origin beans, brew them in my Hario pour over or Aeropress etc. But I'm not going to pretend it's this wonderful health drink when it clearly has negative side effects. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine

Swizec 11y ago
> reduces motor control Does it? I remember reading that it increased reflexes, improves stamina, and increases physical strength. If that's all true (I might have read an outdated/bad study), then what counts as motor control?
- EllipticCurve 11y ago
  No, I read some similar studies. This one is quite good, btw. (over 30 years, 200,000 participiants) http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/11/coffee-drinking-linked-to-lower-mortality-risk-again/ http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/11/coffee-drinking-linke...
- leonroy 11y ago
  Whilst sipping a tasty brazilian coffee there's a little irony in me checking back on this comment to back up my critique on coffee. (Gonna lump all my responses to the various comments here, so apologies if I come across as a bit strong.) Here's what I found regarding motor control: > There is also some evidence that fine motor control may be impaired as a function of the increase in anxiety http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12204388 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12204388 From the aforementioned Wikipedia article: > Caffeine in plants acts as a natural pesticide: it can paralyze and kill predator insects feeding on the plant Regarding my comment on it being a neurotoxin. Caffeine is a central nervous system stimulant. You're basically ingesting plant insecticide which in turn stimulates the nervous system, causes the adrenals to release adrenaline and causes a heightened alert response as well as many other positive AND negative effects. Hence my remark. Source: http://brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/alcohol,_tobacco,_&_other_drugs/caffeine.php http://brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Edu... Most of the research I've seen promotes its health benefits in narrow isolation on one particular facet of human physiology. I haven't seen any evidence that could conclusively sway me towards going from 1 cup a day of coffee to say 4-6 which apparently is the amount a lot of people drink. My own feeling on coffee is that like anything which has pros and cons it should be drunk in moderation.
habitue 11y ago
Neurotoxin for insects = terrible evidence of toxicity in humans. We go by evidence of toxicity in humans, and all evidence shows it isn't toxic in the doses people consume it. If you want to say we haven't discovered the secret terrible cancer causing agent in coffee yet, but just you wait... Well it's going to take a lot of evidence. There are lots of controlled studies saying it's pretty good for you. I think what you're picking up on is a distrust by analogy. In the past we thought some things were safe, but they weren't (smoking etc). But the opposite of being ignorant about the effects of chemicals we ingest isn't to suddenly say everything is unsafe. It's to test everything. And we have tested caffeine, and it's safe.
DrScump 11y ago
caffeine is a neurotoxin produced by the coffee bean to repel insects The source you quote (Wikipedia) doesn't call it a neurotoxin, nor can I find a source that calls it neurotoxic to humans or other great apes. Were you thinking of nicotine instead? It certainly serves that role against insects for the tobacco plant.

wrong_variable 11y ago

Nice Try Grey - we know you love coffee ! [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTVE5iPMKLg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTVE5iPMKLg

eloisant 11y ago

Excess of anything is bad. Hell, even drinking too much water can kill you.

cmsj 11y ago

You might want to do some more research into sugar :)

dennis_jeeves 11y ago

Ray Peat, isn't it ? :)