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I don't think your justification for saying your "Native American" around tribal members would fly. Technically, 1/32 Cherokee is white (or whatever other raci

I don't think your justification for saying your "Native American" around tribal members would fly. Technically, 1/32 Cherokee is white (or whatever other racial types you possess). 1/32 (like my 1/8 [edit: I guess I would qualify for different tribes and you would if you were a certain non-Cherokee tribe http://www.native-american-online.org/blood-quantum.htm] http://www.native-american-online.org/blood-quantum.htm]) wouldn't get you on the rolls of any tribe in the US. I'm listed as a lineal descendent of my enrolled member father, but am not considered a member nor can I put down "American Indian and Alaska Native" on a form. Certain federal school funding programs can claim me as a number but scholarships sure weren't one of them. I have never heard anyone on a reservation use the term "Native American Indians". [edit: removed].

Mz 11y ago
I suspect you have misunderstood my point. We say "So and so is a native New Yorker" or "So and so is a native of Wisconsin." Etc. In the sense that I was born and raised here, I am a native American. Native: 1.a person born in a specified place or associated with a place by birth, whether subsequently resident there or not All I am saying is that it is potentially linguistically confusing because although I am not by blood Native American in that I am not mostly descended from indigenous peoples who lived here prior to the "discovery" by Columbus, I am still a native American in that I am an American by birth. When you say that verbally, you don't know if the letter N is capitalized or not. I am sure most white folks would sound like heathens when visiting a reservation and trying to engage the members of the tribe.
- protomyth 11y ago
  No, I got that part, but the term actually has a meaning in the current world other than the composition of its parts which is different than the examples you cite. > I am sure most white folks would sound like heathens when visiting a reservation and trying to engage the members of the tribe. Not in normal conversations, its still America (or Canada for reserves), but anyone debating what someone else should call themselves does lead to a bit of trouble. The history of the Sioux alone shows that.
  - Mz 11y ago
    Oh, no, I was not debating what someone else should call themselves. I was tossing out an off the cuff suggestion as to why a particular site may have used the phrasing it used, even though I am not the author of the site, so I don't actually know why it was called that. I personally find every one of those expressions -- Indians, Native Americans, Indigenous Peoples -- problematic. Indians: Columbus thought he had discovered India. It thus completely annihilates the identity of the peoples of this continent by assuming they are something else entirely and, oh, hand wavy, SKIN COLOR, close enough! --- we don't really care that they aren't. Native Americans: There was no "America" to be "native" of before white peoples came and stole the lands of the indigenous peoples. Nor was it even called America when Columbus first found it. He thought he found India. It was called The New World for a time. It wasn't named America until Amerigo Vespucci came here. (No, I don't recall all the details.) It is rather insulting to retroactively designate them by a country name that didn't exist when this was their lands. Indigenous Peoples: Most Americans hear that and think you mean tribes in some other part of the world, not tribes native to this continent. I don't think we have a really good expression for the entire group of many different tribal peoples who are descended from the people who were here well before Europeans discovered this continent and ....lots of events later a country called The United States of America was formed. Even the term "America" as a means to refer to citizens of the U.S.A. is problematic when speaking on the Internet because Canadians and people living in South America and Central America (etc) feel like we are appropriating a term that could also refer to them. The arrogance of mainstream culture in the U.S. is incredible and galling and I am not fond of it. But I am only one person and often use terms I do not like because I am just one person and I need to communicate with other people and communication requires that we use terms that will get us understood, no matter how much we think their history and usage is deeply troubling and problematic.

Mz 11y ago

I suspect you have misunderstood my point. We say "So and so is a native New Yorker" or "So and so is a native of Wisconsin." Etc. In the sense that I was born and raised here, I am a native American. Native: 1.a person born in a specified place or associated with a place by birth, whether subsequently resident there or not All I am saying is that it is potentially linguistically confusing because although I am not by blood Native American in that I am not mostly descended from indigenous peoples who lived here prior to the "discovery" by Columbus, I am still a native American in that I am an American by birth. When you say that verbally, you don't know if the letter N is capitalized or not. I am sure most white folks would sound like heathens when visiting a reservation and trying to engage the members of the tribe.

protomyth 11y ago
No, I got that part, but the term actually has a meaning in the current world other than the composition of its parts which is different than the examples you cite. > I am sure most white folks would sound like heathens when visiting a reservation and trying to engage the members of the tribe. Not in normal conversations, its still America (or Canada for reserves), but anyone debating what someone else should call themselves does lead to a bit of trouble. The history of the Sioux alone shows that.
- Mz 11y ago
  Oh, no, I was not debating what someone else should call themselves. I was tossing out an off the cuff suggestion as to why a particular site may have used the phrasing it used, even though I am not the author of the site, so I don't actually know why it was called that. I personally find every one of those expressions -- Indians, Native Americans, Indigenous Peoples -- problematic. Indians: Columbus thought he had discovered India. It thus completely annihilates the identity of the peoples of this continent by assuming they are something else entirely and, oh, hand wavy, SKIN COLOR, close enough! --- we don't really care that they aren't. Native Americans: There was no "America" to be "native" of before white peoples came and stole the lands of the indigenous peoples. Nor was it even called America when Columbus first found it. He thought he found India. It was called The New World for a time. It wasn't named America until Amerigo Vespucci came here. (No, I don't recall all the details.) It is rather insulting to retroactively designate them by a country name that didn't exist when this was their lands. Indigenous Peoples: Most Americans hear that and think you mean tribes in some other part of the world, not tribes native to this continent. I don't think we have a really good expression for the entire group of many different tribal peoples who are descended from the people who were here well before Europeans discovered this continent and ....lots of events later a country called The United States of America was formed. Even the term "America" as a means to refer to citizens of the U.S.A. is problematic when speaking on the Internet because Canadians and people living in South America and Central America (etc) feel like we are appropriating a term that could also refer to them. The arrogance of mainstream culture in the U.S. is incredible and galling and I am not fond of it. But I am only one person and often use terms I do not like because I am just one person and I need to communicate with other people and communication requires that we use terms that will get us understood, no matter how much we think their history and usage is deeply troubling and problematic.