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>When a person uses "All Lives Matter", what they really >mean is "cop's lives matter more" No, I understand it to be "police can sometimes use force unjustifi

by jazzyk 11y ago

>When a person uses "All Lives Matter", what they really >mean is "cop's lives matter more" No, I understand it to be "police can sometimes use force unjustifiably towards anyone, of any race." If a cop murders someone, s/he should be held responsible (sadly, they are not). The reason that more black people get murdered by police is that they (blacks) get in trouble more often (which is NOT a justification to kill them) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_S...

moron4hire 11y ago
yes, of course
eropple 11y ago
> No, I understand it to be "police can sometimes use force unjustifiably towards anyone, of any race." This would be true if this is what the people saying it demonstrated beliefs that were congruent with their actions. However, the overwhelming majority (to the point where the counterparty is anecdotal and, frankly, possibly mythical) use it to establish a fundamentally conservative defense of the status quo. I mean--"All Lives Matter" sounds good. Except it is used as a direct and intentional response to the institutional prejudice and societal control via police that is applied to black people, and when you look at deeds instead of words, that's super fucked-up. "All Lives Matter" requires intentionally misunderstanding "Black Lives Matter." What it means, and what they no-sell as hard as they possibly, possibly can, is that it's really "Black Lives Matter, Too". Because right now, to society at large, black lives don't matter. Deeds, not words, and the deeds are uniformly bad.
- Estragon 11y ago
  > the overwhelming majority (to the point where the > counterparty is anecdotal and, frankly, possibly > mythical) use it to establish a fundamentally > conservative defense of the status quo While "All lives matter" is an inappropriate response, it is a natural one which well-meaning people come up with all the time. Honestly, when heard out of context "Black lives matter" is more than a little cryptic, and the first time I heard it my initial thought was "Are they claiming their lives matter more than most??" http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/24/417112956/hillary-clintons-three-word-gaffe-all-lives-matter http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/24/417112... http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/bernie-sanders-netroots-nation-black-lives-matter/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/bernie-sanders-netroo...
  - eropple 11y ago
    If it's a default response for you (the generic you, not you specifically) to say it rather than think through the problem...I mean, that says a lot about societal awareness, and I can't really find much sympathy for that, but you're right in that some well-meaning idiots might view it as a surface-level thing. But those well-meaning, superficial people aren't in the discussion in the first place. Even Hillary Clinton--who should have known better--isn't going to BLM events explicitly as counter-protestors to chant "All Lives Matter" at them. Right now, as 2016 opens, "All Lives Matter" is the dog whistle of dog whistles.
    - Estragon 11y ago
      My point is that it's not just a question of societal awareness. The links in my GP post show Secretary Clinton and Governor O'Malley making exactly this mistake. They are not idiots and their ambitions depend on courting black voters, so they are acutely aware of the issues affecting black people. The phrase is probably the best you can do in a slogan, but it is cryptic.
      - eropple 11y ago
        > they are acutely aware of the issues affecting black people See...I really don't think they are (or at least were before they got shellacked). I think it's so profoundly pervasive that even at the highest levels it hasn't been An Issue until very recently. So it's pretty tough for me to see that. (While I don't know O'Malley, I don't pay attention to inconsequentials, I think Hillary Clinton is a status-quo-favoring moderate on most things, which probably doesn't make me more sympathetic.)

by jazzyk 11y ago

moron4hire 11y ago

yes, of course

eropple 11y ago

> No, I understand it to be "police can sometimes use force unjustifiably towards anyone, of any race." This would be true if this is what the people saying it demonstrated beliefs that were congruent with their actions. However, the overwhelming majority (to the point where the counterparty is anecdotal and, frankly, possibly mythical) use it to establish a fundamentally conservative defense of the status quo. I mean--"All Lives Matter" sounds good. Except it is used as a direct and intentional response to the institutional prejudice and societal control via police that is applied to black people, and when you look at deeds instead of words, that's super fucked-up. "All Lives Matter" requires intentionally misunderstanding "Black Lives Matter." What it means, and what they no-sell as hard as they possibly, possibly can, is that it's really "Black Lives Matter, Too". Because right now, to society at large, black lives don't matter. Deeds, not words, and the deeds are uniformly bad.

Estragon 11y ago
> the overwhelming majority (to the point where the > counterparty is anecdotal and, frankly, possibly > mythical) use it to establish a fundamentally > conservative defense of the status quo While "All lives matter" is an inappropriate response, it is a natural one which well-meaning people come up with all the time. Honestly, when heard out of context "Black lives matter" is more than a little cryptic, and the first time I heard it my initial thought was "Are they claiming their lives matter more than most??" http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/24/417112956/hillary-clintons-three-word-gaffe-all-lives-matter http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/24/417112... http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/bernie-sanders-netroots-nation-black-lives-matter/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/bernie-sanders-netroo...
- eropple 11y ago
  If it's a default response for you (the generic you, not you specifically) to say it rather than think through the problem...I mean, that says a lot about societal awareness, and I can't really find much sympathy for that, but you're right in that some well-meaning idiots might view it as a surface-level thing. But those well-meaning, superficial people aren't in the discussion in the first place. Even Hillary Clinton--who should have known better--isn't going to BLM events explicitly as counter-protestors to chant "All Lives Matter" at them. Right now, as 2016 opens, "All Lives Matter" is the dog whistle of dog whistles.
  - Estragon 11y ago
    My point is that it's not just a question of societal awareness. The links in my GP post show Secretary Clinton and Governor O'Malley making exactly this mistake. They are not idiots and their ambitions depend on courting black voters, so they are acutely aware of the issues affecting black people. The phrase is probably the best you can do in a slogan, but it is cryptic.
    - eropple 11y ago
      > they are acutely aware of the issues affecting black people See...I really don't think they are (or at least were before they got shellacked). I think it's so profoundly pervasive that even at the highest levels it hasn't been An Issue until very recently. So it's pretty tough for me to see that. (While I don't know O'Malley, I don't pay attention to inconsequentials, I think Hillary Clinton is a status-quo-favoring moderate on most things, which probably doesn't make me more sympathetic.)