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Selling something that people want isn't equal to providing value. Let me be pessimistic: coffee doesn't provide a positive value, because it's a drug that get'

Selling something that people want isn't equal to providing value. Let me be pessimistic: coffee doesn't provide a positive value, because it's a drug that get's people addicted however little and subliminal. Maybe that is a value to society in general, but it isn't to the individual. The car definitely is an economic nessecity in some parts. I don't know what refridgerator oligarchy you are refering to and it specifically doesn't matter. I'm sure the term oligarchy relates negatively to democratic societies.

WalterBright 11y ago
I love coffee. It is one of the great pleasures of life, like chocolate and strawberries. It provides positive value to me.
- throwupper247 11y ago
  Hedonism is your ultimate phylosophical truth, is it? Strawberries are hardly as heavily industrialised as coffee, calling your relationship with a hot bevarage a romantic one is doubtful. I am as pessimistic as your logic is flawed. There are few things in live the brain is prewired to feel a need for. Coffee supplis the illusion of fullfilling two or three enssential ones of these, hunger and thirst and sleep, but it doesn't actually provide the associated value.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - icebraining 11y ago
    Coffee supplis the illusion of fullfilling two or three enssential ones of these, hunger and thirst and sleep, but it doesn't actually provide the associated value. You know, for many, that's a completely irrelevant factor in their appreciation for coffee. And by the way, I'm pretty sure it does quench thirst, seeing as it's 99% water.
    - throwupper247 11y ago
      No, I don't know. If 99% water solution just has to satisfy thirst, then a 1% zyankali solution doesn't kill, is it? It's a bad comparison, because I really don't know what else coffee brew consists of exactly, but you probably don't either, so ... that pretty much wraps it up.
  - drtz 11y ago
    I hate to continue on a tangent, but coffee is delicious and smells amazing and you'd have to be The Grinch to not enjoy the atmosphere in a good cafe. If you want some tangible benefits just throw in some sugar and cream.
    - throwupper247 11y ago
      It's disgustingly bitter, so much most can only bare it with milk and sugar. Your subjective evidence is not convincing, even less as I was implying coffee had an addictive and hence behavioral conditioning effect, part of which comes from advertisement like yours, so stop it, will ya.
      - WalterBright 11y ago
        > disgustingly bitter I take mine black. I admit it is an acquired taste, but oh what a glorious taste it is! Maybe you just had some bad coffee.
  - digbyloftus 11y ago
    Hedonism is as true as any other. Plenty of people, even if they are not familiar with philosophical terms and wouldn't self describe as such, are living according to hedonistic values. Plenty of people are living according to all sorts of different codes. Any system that defines value in a way that doesn't allow for these people, for example by saying that coffee doesn't have value, is a faulty one. Economically, if a person is willing to spend $5 on coffee then coffee is worth $5 to them. Trying to attach solid philosophical reasoning behind that may be a fun thought experiment but it's hardly the solved one your responses seem to imply that you think it is.
    - throwupper247 11y ago
      No, hedonism is not true. It's a deceptive misconception of what values are a good guideline for a sustainable life. I was getting at the common notion that hedonists don't want to work, because it's no fun, which is obviously incompatible. >any system that defines value in a way that doesn't allow for these people wat Hedonism defines pleasure as the primary and most intrinsic good so any system allowing it is just hedonism. WTF? How would any system acommodate competing theories? Fun thought experiment, sure. >Economically Usually it would go the other way, if coffee is worth something to me, I will be willing to pay that. You mess up simple logic, get your head straight.
zo1 11y ago
>"Selling something that people want isn't equal to providing value. Let me be pessimistic: coffee doesn't provide a positive value, because it's a drug that get's people addicted however little and subliminal. Maybe that is a value to society in general, but it isn't to the individual." If you don't think someone selling you coffee that you want is providing value, then perhaps you should try make your own. Once you have to "spend" time to physically make/get yourself the good/product that you wanted, you'll quickly learn what "value" a seller provides. Technically, not the seller as much as the actual producer, but the seller provides value as well. And in most examples represents the entire supply chain.
- throwupper247 11y ago
  That's just sad how much you are missing my point, all the while defending the coffee that your text kind of reads like you had too much before reading.
  - zo1 11y ago
    >"Selling something that people want isn't equal to providing value." This is the point I was addressing. >"Let me be pessimistic: coffee doesn't provide a positive value, because it's a drug that get's people addicted however little and subliminal." Oh, so now it's "positive value". This is something you are imposing on the person based on your own personal opinion about value and coffee. >"Maybe that is a value to society in general, but it isn't to the individual." No, it's a value to the individual that chose it. You, being external to the hypothetical individual we are discussing, don't get to make decisions for said individual. >"That's just sad how much you are missing my point, all the while defending the coffee that your text kind of reads like you had too much before reading." My comment had nothing to do with advocating coffee.
    - throwupper247 11y ago
      >My comment had nothing to do with advocating coffee My comment did. You can't just reply to the whole comment without considering that part.

WalterBright 11y ago

I love coffee. It is one of the great pleasures of life, like chocolate and strawberries. It provides positive value to me.

throwupper247 11y ago
Hedonism is your ultimate phylosophical truth, is it? Strawberries are hardly as heavily industrialised as coffee, calling your relationship with a hot bevarage a romantic one is doubtful. I am as pessimistic as your logic is flawed. There are few things in live the brain is prewired to feel a need for. Coffee supplis the illusion of fullfilling two or three enssential ones of these, hunger and thirst and sleep, but it doesn't actually provide the associated value.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- icebraining 11y ago
  Coffee supplis the illusion of fullfilling two or three enssential ones of these, hunger and thirst and sleep, but it doesn't actually provide the associated value. You know, for many, that's a completely irrelevant factor in their appreciation for coffee. And by the way, I'm pretty sure it does quench thirst, seeing as it's 99% water.
  - throwupper247 11y ago
    No, I don't know. If 99% water solution just has to satisfy thirst, then a 1% zyankali solution doesn't kill, is it? It's a bad comparison, because I really don't know what else coffee brew consists of exactly, but you probably don't either, so ... that pretty much wraps it up.
- drtz 11y ago
  I hate to continue on a tangent, but coffee is delicious and smells amazing and you'd have to be The Grinch to not enjoy the atmosphere in a good cafe. If you want some tangible benefits just throw in some sugar and cream.
  - throwupper247 11y ago
    It's disgustingly bitter, so much most can only bare it with milk and sugar. Your subjective evidence is not convincing, even less as I was implying coffee had an addictive and hence behavioral conditioning effect, part of which comes from advertisement like yours, so stop it, will ya.
    - WalterBright 11y ago
      > disgustingly bitter I take mine black. I admit it is an acquired taste, but oh what a glorious taste it is! Maybe you just had some bad coffee.
- digbyloftus 11y ago
  Hedonism is as true as any other. Plenty of people, even if they are not familiar with philosophical terms and wouldn't self describe as such, are living according to hedonistic values. Plenty of people are living according to all sorts of different codes. Any system that defines value in a way that doesn't allow for these people, for example by saying that coffee doesn't have value, is a faulty one. Economically, if a person is willing to spend $5 on coffee then coffee is worth $5 to them. Trying to attach solid philosophical reasoning behind that may be a fun thought experiment but it's hardly the solved one your responses seem to imply that you think it is.
  - throwupper247 11y ago
    No, hedonism is not true. It's a deceptive misconception of what values are a good guideline for a sustainable life. I was getting at the common notion that hedonists don't want to work, because it's no fun, which is obviously incompatible. >any system that defines value in a way that doesn't allow for these people wat Hedonism defines pleasure as the primary and most intrinsic good so any system allowing it is just hedonism. WTF? How would any system acommodate competing theories? Fun thought experiment, sure. >Economically Usually it would go the other way, if coffee is worth something to me, I will be willing to pay that. You mess up simple logic, get your head straight.

zo1 11y ago

>"Selling something that people want isn't equal to providing value. Let me be pessimistic: coffee doesn't provide a positive value, because it's a drug that get's people addicted however little and subliminal. Maybe that is a value to society in general, but it isn't to the individual." If you don't think someone selling you coffee that you want is providing value, then perhaps you should try make your own. Once you have to "spend" time to physically make/get yourself the good/product that you wanted, you'll quickly learn what "value" a seller provides. Technically, not the seller as much as the actual producer, but the seller provides value as well. And in most examples represents the entire supply chain.

throwupper247 11y ago
That's just sad how much you are missing my point, all the while defending the coffee that your text kind of reads like you had too much before reading.
- zo1 11y ago
  >"Selling something that people want isn't equal to providing value." This is the point I was addressing. >"Let me be pessimistic: coffee doesn't provide a positive value, because it's a drug that get's people addicted however little and subliminal." Oh, so now it's "positive value". This is something you are imposing on the person based on your own personal opinion about value and coffee. >"Maybe that is a value to society in general, but it isn't to the individual." No, it's a value to the individual that chose it. You, being external to the hypothetical individual we are discussing, don't get to make decisions for said individual. >"That's just sad how much you are missing my point, all the while defending the coffee that your text kind of reads like you had too much before reading." My comment had nothing to do with advocating coffee.
  - throwupper247 11y ago
    >My comment had nothing to do with advocating coffee My comment did. You can't just reply to the whole comment without considering that part.